My Vote, My Choice with Feminista Jones

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to now. No opportunity wasted. I'm your host, Angelica Ross. Today we have a really fun, informative, and a bit controversial conversation with the brilliant scholar, writer, and activist feminista Jones Baby. We talk about everything from project 2025 to voting in this presidential election and so, so much more. But before we get into that conversation, let's start things off, as we always do here, with a word from Buddhism day by day by Daisaku Ikeda. Today, as you are listening to this, or, you know, maybe not today, but today that this comes out is September 2, and it says, quote, ultimately, happiness rests on how you establish a solid sense of self or being. Happiness does not lie in outward appearances nor in vanity. It is a matter of what you feel inside. It is a deep resonance in your life to be filled each day with a rewarding sense of exhilaration and purpose, a sense of tasks accomplished and deep fulfillment. People who feel this way are happy. Those who have this sense of satisfaction, even if they are extremely busy, are much happier than those who have time on their hands but feel empty inside. Now, I gotta say, I definitely have been feeling a sense of accomplishment lately, being filled up every day just with the things that I'm doing with that have so much purpose and intention. And, you know, some days, though, I'm downright exhausted. I'm not gonna lie. But it still, at the end of the day, feels so good. And this past weekend was filled with so much. I helped hosts an intro to Buddhism meeting with our lgbtqias, two division of our SGI Buddhist organization called Courageous Freedom, which is our all inclusive community within the SGI that is dedicated to ending prejudice, creating equality and peace, and opening the path to ending prejudice. Don't that sound amazing? Courageous freedom. That's our lgbt group there. So I wanted to do a buddhist event during the world Black Pride weekend that's happening here in Atlanta, and I wanted to provide an alternative to the normal events that you sort of see going on at pride and baby. The kids came through. It was almost 30 of us packed into this room where we chanted, and we held a discussion on Buddhism. I got to meet a poet by the name of intellect who performed an incredibly inspiring poem, intellect. If you are listening, I need that poem to be published ASAP. That was so inspiring. We also had folks who responded to my messages on social media and texted me. Cause, you know, you can text me for more information. And I was able to encourage them to come to our buddhist meeting. We also had a couple young trans kids that were there, and it was just, man, they were so adorable as they told me, like, how much my practice has inspired them. And it just was incredible to see them inspiring their friends who are also trans. And then I had my girlfriend sitting right next to me, which was just perfection for me, you know. And then the very next day, she received her go. Excuse me, she received her very own Gohonzon. And that's, you know, basically the scroll that we all chant to. So that also means that she has officially joined our SgI buddhist family. So welcome to the family, G. I was so honored to be able to be there to watch her, receive her Gohonzon and be able to stand next to her in that moment. And yes, like I said before, it was always my thought that if I want to be in a relationship, I want to be in one with a spiritual foundation, a strong spiritual foundation. But of course, I'm actually just way more excited for her own personal journey and can't wait to see what this buddhist practice is going to do for her in her personal life. I'm really excited for her. I've already seen it bring blessings to her and her family. So congratulations. So again, if you out there listening are interested in learning more about Buddhism, feel free to text me at 404-737-1450 I can help connect you to an SGI buddhist center. We have one in every state and a buddhist meeting pretty much happening every week in every neighborhood all around the world. So no matter where you are, so no matter where you are located, I can help get you connected to your local SGI buddhist community because I got that connection. Also, it's about that time again when anticipation for the new iPhone starts to buzz. So I want to remind you that we are boycotting and trying our hardest to hold on to the working technology that we already have. We don't need a new phone every year, especially when it comes at the cost of genocide. In case you haven't heard, Gaza is not the only place experiencing the horrors of genocide. Men, women and children are being forced to work in the most inhumane and life threatening conditions. All for cobalt and Congo's precious resources that power most of our technology. So again, for those that are clueless, Africa is not poor. It is actually full of resources that have been extracted by a deadly combination of human rights violations, child labor violations, land dispossession, colonization, imperialism, capitalism, and so on and so on. So if you really need a new phone, consider buying refurbished. There's actually companies out there and technology where you can keep the same actual phone and just keep replacing the parts as you need to. I can't remember the name of that, but, you know, google it or I'll look it up and I'll try to pass it on to you. But in any case, we have to do whatever we can do, big and small, to make a difference. Y'all know what it is. No opportunity wasted. So, with that being said, let's go ahead and get into my conversation with feminista Jones. Now. I do want to give a little disclaimer. Feminista Jones and I both make it very clear that we are encouraging everyone to vote, to find the power in their vote, and to vote however they feel. We recognize that as black people, as women, or even as LGBTQ folks, that we are not a monolith and we don't all think the same, and we want to respect each other's differences as much as we can. You've heard of my body, my choice. Well, it's also my vote. My choice with feminista Jones. Take a listen. All right, well, welcome to now, finally, finally, because I have been waiting for this moment to Kiki with feminista Jones. I wish, you know, I've just been running around today, but I got my read the article mug. I have been a patreon. I have been a student. I have just been just a fellow sister in the movement out here in these Internet streets as well as in real life irl. So please welcome to the podcast now, Feminista Jones. Thank you so much for saying yes. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Oh, no, thank you for having me. My students would love this. Cause I teach you all the time, and so hopefully some of them will see this. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Listen, I'm telling you, it was such a beautiful surprise. You know, I was reading your book. It was our space is reclaiming our space, right? Reclaiming our space. And I'm listening. And, you know, there's various folks in the book, you know, that you're mentioning Angela Davis and, like, Bill hooks and all these other folks, Barbara Smith. And, you know, and then I hear, you know, little me in the mix up there, and I'm just like. I was. I was so pleased because as I was listening, you know, as a black trans woman, throughout my years of being 43, I have sat at the foot of so many black women teachers, you know, that have taught us a little bit of things as much as they could. Indy re brown skin and different things of where I see myself reflected. But oftentimes, you know, I have to either reflect in the universal ness of, like, lyrics like NDR or when Oprah or someone else is talking about a certain type of liberation for women in general, I have to kind of find myself, you know what I'm saying, in that conversation, whereas you've been very clear, you know, from the jump in your allyship, or I should. I don't know if I should say from the jump, because I want you to tell me what the jump is because I don't know where that started from you, but all I've ever known is you being an ally and recognizing trans leadership. [00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's. So I talk a little bit about it in the book, and it's one of those things where I try to lead by example and say, none of us were born perfect. None of us were born spitting multi syllabic words. We didn't all come out. We were not born woke. Right. I actually wrote a piece called the privilege of being born woke because I feel like some folks from younger generations expect us to have had the awareness now that many of us have actually gotten from them. So, you know, I wasn't always somebody who was like, rah, rah, trans women. I didn't know, first of all, I didn't know a whole lot about, you know, folks experiences outside of what, you know, I witnessed growing up with my mom, being in the community. But I just, you know, we grew up with the same transphobia that everybody did. And I'm not making excuses. Trust and understand. But if it was not for encountering folks online. Right. And activists and people like yourself, I I would not be. I would not have the consciousness that I do now. And I'm grateful for it. It's well over a decade in. But, you know, I had to come to that moment the same way a lot of people come to me for those moments. So, in the book, I talk about that because I think it's important to be like, listen, y'all, we ain't always been this good about things, but growth happens, and it happens when you learn and when you listen to people share their stories and stuff. That's where I learned, and that's where I grow. And so for me to not include black trans women in my conversations, like, I tell people all the time when I'm saying women, please assume, coming from me. I mean, trans, cis, however, you know, if you. I. If you say you're a woman, you're a damn woman. That's what I'm talking about. Right. Um, and then. So I think when I model that for people, it's just like, nah, don't play. We're not playing those games. Yeah, we're not, I don't want to add extra words to what I got to say anyway, so it's women, women as women is women, and that's it. Right. And if my understanding of womanhood has been changed by trans women, right. I'm now in this for the better. [00:12:28] Speaker A: You would say, right? [00:12:29] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. No, absolutely. Because I'm in this space of now of like, well, whatever I was taught. How harmful has that been to all of us? Right. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Think about, well, think about this right now. In this moment, we all watched a global display of transphobia at the Olympics. Man, if this wasn't the moment that should illustrate for so many cisgender women, natural born women, however we wanted, you know, all the language I want to use, you know, y'all know what we saying. But if we didn't see now how transphobia affects all of us, this was a moment because no one's questioning or monitoring the testosterone level in these male athletes. They're barely checking them for Covid or cocaine. Well, well, let's talk about it. And so there's so many things that they call black athletes out on. We've seen Shakari Richardson called out for marijuana usage, but yet I've seen people, again, I haven't even been following that toughly, but I've seen people calling out some athlete for having a history of sexual, I want to say assault on a minor. Like a twelve year old. [00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah, he raped a twelve year old. [00:13:49] Speaker A: Yes. You know what I mean? And I, in these Internet streets and these days, I've been, it's, I am in a state of somewhat of a awe because I came up in a time where I learned through a journalism class, I learned through a few things where, how you check what is a great source, knowing the propaganda machines of marketing, you know, understanding all of these different things. And yet I'm getting to a place, feminist Jones, where I am pausing as I consume the media that comes in because I'm not sure if what I am watching is real and it's or is being shown in the lens that I'm supposed to see it in. And it's so hard because I used to be able to turn on the news and on the tv and see the news reporting on the stories. But now the things that we need to be informed about, I'm learning about on TikTok, I'm learning about on Instagram until they started shutting those things down. And you've been a part of that wave. That is, it has moved from the classroom to the Internet. And sometimes people get it confused that you just started on the Internet, but, you know, what's that experience? [00:15:24] Speaker B: You know, it's. Well, it's interesting because we are going to be celebrating the 10th anniversary of the national moment of silence, right. Which remains the largest anti police brutality demonstration in modern us history. And we're going to be talking about that. That wouldn't have happened if I wasn't an organizer beforehand, like, if I hadn't been a community organizer and activist. Yeah. You know, using the Internet is cool and social media is great. You still got to know what you're doing. It's merely a tool, right. It's an effective tool. And, well, it was once an effective tool, but when they realized in part because of said demonstration, that this could actually be used in a very powerful way, then they decided to shake it up. You know, I ended up on, you know, freaking watch list for Department of Homeland Security because they're like, what is, who is this? Who is this that can do this kind of thing on this massive scale? And so now we're starting to see the consequences of that kind of mobilization and activism. Now they're trying to destroy all the platforms that we use to connect with each other across the country, across the world. And so let's talk about those. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Well, let's talk about those consequences for a second, because. [00:16:33] Speaker B: I. [00:16:35] Speaker A: Is that you talk about consequences. I know what you're talking about. Definitely. Is everyone aware of all of the. I say that I asked this because I don't know if it's feigning ignorance. I don't know if it's. I don't. The kind of oppressiveness and the shutdown that we've had happen. Some of us really feel it. And I don't know if everybody does feel it or if the shutdown has made things a little bit more comfortable, too, for others who are not just the oppressors, but the people who just. Yeah, good vibes only. [00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I know what you're getting at. So I always want to give people perspective. You're 43, 45. Ten years ago, a lot of the folks who they're targeting now that are in their twenties, these were kids. They were in middle school and high school. They don't remember a lot of this. I get students. I'm like Mike Brown, and they're like, who? They barely know Trayvon Martin. They barely know these things really, just a decade ago, right. Almost a collective amnesia around a lot of these things, in part because of social media's microwaveability and how new topics are, you know, generated every day. The brain is not designed to hold all of that. Right, baby? Right. If you were 14 when Mike Brown died, did you go to a protest? Maybe if your parent took you or something like that? Were they talking about in school? We don't necessarily know. Ten years later, you know, you're getting online, you want to organize for Palestine and for the people, you know, the Palestinians and Congo and Sudan and things like that, not realizing that, you know, a decade ago, you had people doing the same stuff that you could be learning from. And so folks, you know, folks are a bit disconnected, but that was the consequence. What a part of it was, you know, just really disabling and disarming. A lot of the ways we connected online making. [00:18:49] Speaker A: But where does this come from? But where did this come from? Where people, not even just young people, but anybody who said, okay, now I want to come in. How. Where does the line of thinking come from to not look back at and see the work that anybody or just, you know, it just, it's, it's, well. [00:19:13] Speaker B: It'S not being taught. Right. So, you know, the attacks on education are at the, really at the core of this. What are they learning in school? Again, if your parents weren't involved, they're not necessarily going to teach you these things. I learned about a lot from my mom, who was an AIDS activist, like early, early AIDS activists, you know what I mean? On the show when y'all did this, the thing on act up and how, you know, people were doing the die ins, my mom was. I cried through that whole episode because that was what my mom did. She used to organize stuff like that. So, like, I was just, like, sitting there, like, finally the lesbians are getting their, you know, their attention that they deserve for that. Absolutely. [00:19:52] Speaker A: Especially by the bedside of so many as well. Yes, exactly. [00:19:56] Speaker B: Exactly. So I grew up with that. Okay. But also, this is a woman who was, like, rocking with the Panthers and the feminists and things like that. I got lucky. A lot of folks are not being raised by folks who were involved in that work. My son, I took him to protests, right? So he knows he's way more aware than his peers. So it's kind of like, we need to pass that on. But there's also an intergenerational disconnect, I think, that is fueled by social media. I think there's a lot of stuff that comes in that tells these young people, oh, they're boomers, they're old, they don't know what they're talking about. Don't listen to them. And then I think the older folks are like, all these young, stupid kids. They can't read and things like that. We have those tensions that are kind of keeping us apart. But I think there is social media messaging that is doing that. You know? So I get. [00:20:45] Speaker A: Do you feel like the gap is closing at all? [00:20:48] Speaker B: No, I think it's actually widening. And I'm concerned because the young people have so much energy and they want to do the right thing. They just need to know, like, this is what was tried before. It didn't work. This is what has been effective. Here's how you can learn more of that. But again, if they're not getting it in school, they're not learning about protests against the Vietnam war, they're not even learning about where are they going to learn that unless it's on social media? But then if you've erased people, like, the national moment assignments has damn near been erased, how will they learn? How will they know? Right. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:25] Speaker B: And so that's, I think, a lot about that. My job as an educator is to make sure we never forget those things. [00:21:30] Speaker A: Well, that's why I also subscribed at the level when I subscribe is because, like, the teaching that you have been doing, you know, you know, some. A lot, obviously, for free, you know, and just, you know, folks, I know, which I hope even more folks recognize the value and what you are offering in this moment, even when you don't have to. What I want to. Okay, so this podcast specifically, we'd be talking about no opportunity wasted. And what that usually means is, like, the fact that every moment is a moment. Life is made up of so many moments, moment by moment. And each moment is an opportunity to sort of win or lose in your sort of, you know, your spiritual objectives. You know what I mean? And so the reason why I want to tap into a little bit with this is because I think that, you know, we can. We can surf the cliff notes of feminista Jones. And there's a lot of accolades. There are credentials. There are, you know, I mean, there's so much for people if they just open their eyes and Google for them to just skate the surface, you know what I mean? But. But what I know for sure, the way things are set up is that underneath all of that, you're still a black woman who identifies as pansexual. So do I, you know, identifies as pansexual and who has a son who has been raised a son who has been married, who has had a different identity before that marriage, during that marriage, as a mother and then as a mother who's queer identified and identified in our community, what I want to talk about is I try to reflect for everybody, that is, whether you are this person or that person, depending on your mix of things, it's all going to be challenge. Each of us are going to have our individual challenges. But you can't just have the accolades, you just can't have the awards without the struggle, without the hours of work, without completing that degree. Even when it was difficult, whether financially or actually physically, to finish the thing. Talk to me about what it looks like for you to have the opportunity that is your life, that is feminist or jones. And what was the challenge of showing up and dealing with the challenge of a marriage and then a marriage dissolving and still having to raise a child and still having enough strength and room to be lifting bridges and everything else for the rest of us to cross. [00:24:32] Speaker B: You know, a good friend of mine the other day, her sister, you know, was in a bad situation and we were just kind of like, you know, what can we do to help you? And she's like, I'm just going to black woman through. And I think about that, like, what the implications I understand as a black woman, I knew exactly what she meant. I have to ask another question. I'm just going to black woman through and I didn't want to be married. I got pregnant. I got pregnant and I was just like, oh, my goodness, not me. I was still stuck in a lot of those things. I had this Ivy League degree. I was living on my own. I was doing, how the hell did this happen to me? And I was buying into a lot of the respectability things and I was just like, oh, my God, I don't want to raise this kid without his father in the home. I had been raised like that, and so I ended up marrying somebody I wasn't in love with, somebody I should not have married. Right? So we divorced and, you know, for a while we did the co parenting thing and then it just got contentious. And now he's living with me primarily, and I'm, you know, shouldering most of the responsibility and that's fine. Like, my. My kid is great. He's wonderful. And all those things. I think for me, what's been important is that I've never identified myself as a. Just a mother or a wife or, you know, something for someone else. I have long been. I've always been me first. Could be that I'm an Aries son, Leo Moon, I don't know, but I am always the main character in my story. Even when I've experienced abuse and mistreatment, I've still always been me. And so I'm the me who has a kid. I'm the me who was married. I'm the me who, you know, is aromantic, which that also helped. That discovery helped a lot of my relationship kind of stuff. I am the me who is pansexual. I am the me who does those things. And I think being grounded in each iteration of me supersedes everything else. At the end of the day, my oxygen mass has to go on first, and that way I can breathe, and then I can assess the world around me and figure out, wait, wait, wait, wait. [00:26:54] Speaker A: So you just said something that triggered something for me, and I just, I got to get your opinion on it because I don't understand how you can sit here and talk about putting your own mask on first. Also wearing a, what do you call the kofiya? Because I. And also, you know, speaking the way that you do, you seem to be walking and chewing gum, and I'm wondering how you do it, because the thing is, is that the conversation has come up that, politically speaking, right now, a vote for Kamala Harris is for us as black people putting our mask on first. What would you say to that? [00:27:39] Speaker B: Well, that's why I'm not voting for her. But again, it's a stance that I take for myself, and I had to put my mask on so I could assess the situations going around the world. And I'm like, I have enough to breathe. I can breathe okay, but others cannot. So now what? Right. We are always connected to people in struggles because the world has, I want to say this, you know, the right way, but blackness gets put onto people and how the world treats them. Right? We talk about anti blackness. So what does that mean? Right. So we have to understand that blackness is this. I can't use the n word, but there's actually a term for it. And it's the enfying of people, right. And the enterization of people. And that has happened across the globe to people in these situations, whether, again, whether it is Palestine, whether it's Congo, you know, the Tigris, the Tigray people, you know, just the way that the colonized entities treat them. Right? We have solidarity in that because we understand that hundreds of years of being treated like that, there's no way to divorce yourself from the struggles of other people around the world. And it's, I've never bought into as long as me and mine are okay. That's never ever that. That goes against everything I understand about collective of consciousness and solidarity. And because I am pan african, there are african people in Palestine right now suffering. Right. [00:29:11] Speaker A: It sounds like what you're talking about. It sounds also that you're making a choice. [00:29:15] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:16] Speaker A: In this collective mindset, do you think that people are conscious? I guess what I. Because what I'm hearing this all, you know, of course, of course, of course. Are there. You know, I think there's a mindset that's not interested. It's like this individualism, I think, that has. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Of course. And that is all european, that is all patriarchal, that is all colonizer ways of thinking. We are african people. We are collective. I am, because we are. That is it. That is how we survive for thousands of years, being communal. So to move away from that is a very eurocentric way of being. And basically that's why people shit, we don't do that. We do not do that. Individualism, there's no such thing as self. [00:29:59] Speaker A: But we're doing it right. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Some of us are, again, because we look at what they've done to our minds for hundreds of years. Right. You know, I am fortunate that I was raised in a way that allowed me to divest of that and to work on, decolonize my mind. And I say that because that's life's work. We're never, you know, again. [00:30:17] Speaker A: Hundreds, baby. Yes, yes, yes. [00:30:21] Speaker B: But, but I. We. I cannot be free. We are not free until all of us are free. And that's the bottom line. And I understand that a lot of people are choosing, you know, self preservation. I gotta do what's right, what works for me and mine and, okay, what. [00:30:35] Speaker A: Do you do with that record? What do you do with that recognition? And the reason why I asked that is this, is that for me, I had to switch up how I use my Instagram completely, my main profile, because I realized what I want it to be is one thing. What it is on Instagram is another thing because it is absolutely coded, hard coded in the algorithm, to be exactly what they want it to be. Nothing more, nothing less. And so I had to turn that into such a Trojan horse where I'm now rebuilding my engagement on that platform and reconnecting with everybody I know is real on all the other things that will show me the real people. Because this celebrity thing is this. [00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:26] Speaker A: So, but in my, from my perspective, places that I've been, I come. I came into this from grassroots organizing. I came into this from working with the task force and this and that and the third. And then I got famous from my acting, not from being a token advocate, which I, you know. Cause I can understand whenever people are trying to do certain things, and I'm always the one, they have to second guess themselves when they invite because of how I use my platform and my space. [00:31:56] Speaker B: But who are you telling? [00:32:01] Speaker A: Listen. They be like, wait, are you sure? Did you read? [00:32:05] Speaker B: Not sure we can risk that. Cause we not show. [00:32:09] Speaker A: Let me tell you, I had hosted Pride on ABC Hulu for two years straight. I've been speaking up so much about this stuff. The third year came around, I was supposed to be hosting again. That all got shut down. Cause they know as well as I know what I will do with a live moment. [00:32:27] Speaker B: And I. [00:32:28] Speaker A: Let me. Cause what I won't do is trash the situation. What I will do is drop exactly what needs to be dropped in that moment, but from my place and experience and access and all these different things. I've always understood what you're talking about, the collectivism and how collective liberation. But what I've been seeing is capitalism, Hollywood privilege, whatever, picking us off one by one. And all of a sudden, it's about me, me, me. And it's about. It's about protecting that thing, and it's about separating from. You talk too loud about that. And it's. And so to me, and I don't know if I'm too drastic in thinking this, and this is why I'm asking you, how do you look at, when you identify those who are operating through individualism, whether they are at a distance, a celebrity, someone you looked up to, or someone that you are in closer proximity to? Does that change anything? Or how do you engage with someone who's in a space of individualism? [00:33:59] Speaker B: I don't. I don't talk to people. So here's the thing. I've reached a place. I don't look up to people. I look sideways, because that's where I am. Right, right. [00:34:10] Speaker A: I heard that. [00:34:11] Speaker B: I have. I have, you know, great regard for. For many people. But you ain't no better than me. Right. Nor am I any better than. Nor am I any better than that. [00:34:21] Speaker A: Absolutely right. [00:34:22] Speaker B: Yes, we. I am. Because we are. Yeah. I don't. I don't deal with that anymore. And I make it kind of clear. And I think one of the things that puts. That puts off some people is that I am such a straight shooter. I'm very f. Your feelings, because if you're not talking about what I'm trying to hear, I don't have time for this. Like the five minutes, ten minutes that I spend going back and forth with you knowing that you're enslaved and you're going to uphold white supremacy is five or ten minutes. I could be handing some food out somewhere, or I could be, you know, working on a program that's teaching young people how to advocate for them. So I could be doing something else. And, you know, we're not going to get caught in that trap of, like, trying to defend our humanity against people who will never see us as human, that don't understand that anymore. And I see a lot of folks, and I get it. I do understand changing hearts and minds, right, survival, all those things. And I think that's what you were asking. You were getting towards asking me earlier. And I just want to touch on that really quickly. Trauma is. Trauma is trauma. I'm a trauma, a retired, trauma informed social worker. I never project trauma onto people, nor do I tell them what they must do. What I do is try to understand how people are in the situation. I always ask the question, what happened to you black people around the world? What happened to us was european colonization, imperialism, dominance, violence, savagery, all of that stuff. So I understand why so many of us operate and function the way we do. It's how we survive, right? I had to get to a place where I was just like, how do I balance survival? Because why are we paying for food and water? Right? Those things don't make sense to me. You need food and water to live. You should not have to pay for that. But when it hit me that I live in a world that makes human beings pay for food and water, I knew that I was operating in a world that made absolutely no sense. So I have to do the best that I can to survive that and try to get other people to see that we are better together than we are as individuals. What I see happen with folks that take the individual approach is that they don't last very long. You know, they say, if you want to go fast, you want to go somewhere fast, you know, whatever. Go by yourself. If, you know, whatever that saying is. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. I was just saying it today. [00:36:37] Speaker B: I'm going to go with people because I also want people to be there with me. You know, Doctor King said I might not get there with you. And I understand exactly what he was talking about. Not just that he knew they were going to take him out before he reached a certain point, but also that not everybody will be there. The there that he was talking about, we ain't all getting on the mothership. And I've had to be okay with that. It used to not be. When I was a young activist, maybe 25 years ago, I was like, I gotta. We gotta save everybody. We gotta get everybody. But I started realizing that I was denying black people the humanity and the dignity of risk and choice. And at some point, you say, yes, I understand hundreds of years of colonization, but at some point, sweetheart, you got to make a. A choice. And some of our people are making choices to not be free because we don't know liberation. And I teach this in my classes all the time. Let me just say this thing because I want your people to hear this. We do not know what liberation looks like. We have continuously defined liberation as the opposite of oppression. So even then, our liberation gets tied to our oppression. We do not know what it means to exist outside of this oppressive paradigm. Right? So we choose the devil we know, and that's what's comfortable. Rather than try to go for the freedom and liberation we don't know, which could mean suffering, it could mean pain and things like that. We're not trying, you know, we're not willing to try that again. I understand it, but I was not raised that way. I was raised to fight for that, become hell or high water. And so that's why I, you know. [00:38:14] Speaker A: You know, and what's so interesting about you saying that is that, you know, I'm. I'm literally getting goosebumps because, you know, there's. It's. So. There's. There's so many levels to it because I do. I have recognized as well that as black people, we have identified risk as something we don't have access to. Sometimes, especially when you are raised, that you have three strikes, you know, or black. You're this. You're female, or you're, you know, so all of these different things. But through my spiritual practice and through Buddhism, you know, I was introduced to this concept. And that's. And we could talk about this, too, obviously. But, like, it was me meeting. When I. When I. I got introduced to the practice, I immediately knew it was for me or whatever I. But when I got to the center in Los Angeles and I walked in and I saw the other black people and on their faces, in their hairstyles, in the way that they dressed, was a freedom that I do not see often in the patriarchal black church. The bald head black buddhist woman, the one with the gray locks. I don't think I saw a single relaxer in the building. You know what I mean? Like. But I mean, sometimes they do. It's nothing against, you know, relaxer. What I'm saying is that even the freedom, I think, that Tina Turner eventually found for herself from that practice is something that has been separate from black community in ways that they haven't always honored her legacy, you know, even like a Beyonce or things like that. To take the abuse out of her story and make it into something as frivolous as a lyrica, you know, or again, not Beyonce, but Jay Z. I don't want to blame her for her husband's actions, but still, she's tied to it, you know, they both released. [00:40:16] Speaker B: She's a meticulous Virgo. She has control over everything. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Hello. So say hello. Say that. But so being. Not only did I see that and know there was something there when I saw blackness differently, showing up differently, when I was met with another black person, and I told them nervously that I was trans, in the beginning, they were like, oh, wow, congratulations. And we would always say congratulations whenever we know that anyone's faced with either a big challenge or what we would say a life mission. And so the little addition that they were making up and just meeting me is like, wow, you must be blessed. That's their immediate reading. [00:41:07] Speaker B: I mean, that's recognition. That's spiritual recognition. And I'm telling you, as african, it all goes back to Africa. [00:41:16] Speaker A: Secondly, what you brought up for me is this concept of suffering consciously, which is this idea of, you cannot go from birth to the box in death and not experience pain and suffering. And to understand that with losing loved ones, with losing relationships, a job, or whatever it might be, when you get good at suffering consciously, so that the rug is not pulled from under your feet, it is the risk that we're talking about where you say, you know what? I'd rather take the pain of that path to my liberation versus staying here and feeling this and being stuck in this pain. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Yeah, there's got to be something better than this. That's how I always think about it. You know, I was raised in the church. I'm not a church anymore. Everybody knows that. But I was deeply, deeply raised in that. And one of the things that I got out of that experience is that I'm not going to take black people's joy from this. [00:42:20] Speaker A: Them. [00:42:21] Speaker B: So whatever they find joy in, you know, on some level, I gotta let them have that, because the denial of joy is so systemic that whenever we can find joy, so if that is through praising white Jesus, if that is through chanting, if that is through, you know, getting high every morning, I'm not gonna take that from you. I want to meet you where you are and where you are, you know, most open to receive what I'm trying to share with you. And I can't go finger wagging like, oh, you know, whatever, because you're not gonna get the message. You know, I think about that stuff a lot. I'm smiling because you're saying so much about, and we don't have the time. I've been through all this. You keep talking about this different iterations, you know, I've been through all of these things. But one thing I understand now in the work that I do. Yeah, you were talking about, you know, not getting paid or whatever, people are like, oh, you know, you educate people and things like that. [00:43:18] Speaker A: That's. [00:43:18] Speaker B: That's the goal. You know, Doctor Asante, who was my maleficenti, was my mentor and my advisor, and he's like, you know, we do this for the. For the liberation of our people. This is not knowledge for knowledge sake. We're not getting these degrees just to say we got them or to learn, you know, whatever. We're doing this so that we can then go out into the world and liberate our people. So what is the point of me knowing these things or being conscious of these things and not sharing that with people? I look at people like John Henry Clark and. And Bell hooks and others who are like, you know, I got these ideas. I've come to realize these things. I'm going to share it with people so that they can also, you know, learn something. And that's more of what we need to do now. We're able to use social media to reach larger audiences, but people have been doing this since time immemorial. Like this idea of a person sitting there and sharing wisdom and people gathering around to learn it. That's african. It is what we do. So that's why in my book, I said that, you know, social media really, like, it's so easy for black people and people of african descent to use because it speaks to our inherent communication style. We are communal, we are communal, we are calling response. We are all these things. And that's why we do so well on these platforms and why we're able to guide the conversations to that. [00:44:38] Speaker A: Quickness is something else. [00:44:40] Speaker B: And then that's why they are working so hard to shut us down. So, you know, x removed the verified things. They suppress real time stuff. Yeah, like, all this stuff. And I'm just like. I went from somebody who had 170,000 followers to that, meaning nothing anymore because they're making sure no one sees what I post. So I stopped posting there. Right. You know, you start to realize that that's what's happening. Same with Instagram, because I started posting. [00:45:08] Speaker A: And with threads, too. Most, most series on there, gaslighting everybody about this and literally saying out of his mouth that they're suppressing political news. And then when people point out that everything is political, yeah, you may want. [00:45:22] Speaker B: To, you may want to discuss politics, but we're not going to make it easy for you. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that is absolute. Like, that is out of this world. [00:45:30] Speaker A: And so what's out of this world about it is I think that they're violating antitrust regulations because they are, they're. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Getting away with it. Like angelic. Like this is, it's, it's, it's such a mind because. [00:45:41] Speaker A: So I'm not the only one that sees it. [00:45:42] Speaker B: No. [00:45:43] Speaker A: And I keep saying to myself, who am I? This is what gets me mad, though, because I'm a black transsexual from, you know, wherever. Now, how is it that I can recognize violations of antitrust laws when the fact that meta is tied to everything that we have to do as far as business, do you understand that? How many contracts and things that I have lost because my 450,000 followers is not showing up in my metrics, that my, that the brands were paying me for, the eyes for? So now meta manipulated my income stream on that, on something that is tied to the way all of the businesses do business. So tell me, we don't have a class action suit together as black people. [00:46:30] Speaker B: That's part of why I, that's part of why I stopped doing freelance writing, because they started caring more about how many followers I had and how many people you would reach. And I told them, I was like, you know this is not sustainable, right? You know that they're not going to allow that kind of influence to carry on. I am an activist. They are going to suppress anything that I try to do. And so, you know, trying to game the system all that, it's, again, I just, I tell, I've been telling people for the last ten years, build your connections offline, like, make sure that you have community offline, or do the best that you can, because all they have to do is flip a switch. They do it in China, they do it in other countries. People think the United States won't flip a switch and turn the Internet off if they really think we getting too out of pocket. Come on, son. And they'll call it an electrical outage out of my face. I know how this works. And people like all the conspiracy theory. No, no, no. I understand the United States government and military and capitalism and white supremacy, therefore, the so called richest country in the world, that has access to all the tools they need so they could figure out little old me needs to be watched and tailed, okay? They can do whatever it is that they want to do. So we have to be, you know, build that community, build those connections, and stop relying on the algorithm to make that happen. And I think, unfortunately, where the generational divide happens, you know, you and I, when we grew up, we have skinned knees for a reason. We were housed. [00:48:00] Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:48:01] Speaker B: And there's a. And that's the difference. And the disconnect is that they have managed to steal our children's childhoods. They have sucked them in, they have pulled them away from each other, and we've got a generation that doesn't know how to make friends, how to talk to each other, how to build community. And I'm sorry if I for thinking that's by design, because collectivism changes systems when people can get together. You saw what they did to the kids on Roblox when they did the free Palestine thing on Roblox. Shut them all down. And these kids came up with that themselves. So if every time they're trying to do something, it gets shut down or suppressed or pushed back, they're going to eventually stop. Which is the goal. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Which is the goal. [00:48:44] Speaker B: Which is the goal. And so once you recognize that spiritually, you have to divest. I used to be so invested in, like, how many followers I had, how many people I could reach. What was this and this, and I had to divest and say, you know what? I'm just putting it out into the universe. Wherever it needs to land, it will land. It may take a week, and they may miss the event that I was trying to advertise, but it's going to land at some point. And so I just. I just keep putting it out. My spirit has called me to just keep putting it out. Absolutely putting it out. Keep putting it out. Like with my schools and cofa summer school. Just keep putting it out. Putting it out. People are going to come across that YouTube channel. They're going to see all these lectures. They're going to get that knowledge. I have faith in it. And I just keep doing what I feel like I'm called to do, the money and stuff. Listen, as long as I can put food in my child's stomach, I'll be okay. That's how I give you a pack of cigarettes and suppress that. [00:49:38] Speaker A: Suppress that appetite real quick. [00:49:40] Speaker B: That's what my mommy used to do. That's why my mom used to smoke, because she could get the cigarettes cheap, but she couldn't afford enough food for both of us, so she would make sure I ate, and she would go have a cigarette for dinner. You know what I'm saying? That's where I come from, and that's the mentality I come from. So I'm. I can sacrifice a lot because I know I can get by on this much. And I'm grateful for that because it gives me a perspective. I'm not chasing that algorithm dollar. It's nice. When I get. When they say, oh, we're making a deposit, that's cool. But I'm not chasing that. You know, I'm not. I have community. They watch what I do. They make donations and stuff. I appreciate all of that, but I'm just. I'm gonna do it. If I get $0 or a thousand, I'm still gonna do it. One person or 10,000 in audience, I'm still gonna do it. [00:50:24] Speaker A: And what I think, though, that you also are touching on, you know, we're. We're coming up on is the fact that you know where your stances, though, is, not just with the algorithm, it's with capitalism, because. Yes. And what the reason why I say that is because, like, we're on threads. I see you on threads, and I. When I tell you, I'm so glad that I have the experience of being able to see you smile and laugh and, like, hear your voice, because it is what keys me through the day. Sometimes when I see you post something and somebody might be taking it offensive and thinking you're angry. And I'm thinking, and I'm. I'm thinking myself, they don't know how bad she's just smiling or grinning to herself right now. [00:51:15] Speaker B: I so much, too. I be like, y'all really taking this real serious. I'm like, I'm higher than giraffe pussy right now. This is funny to me. Why are y'all mad? Like, you know? But I appreciate folks like you that say that, because people be like, oh, I'm reading this in your voice. I know how you are. I've seen you live. I've seen you make jokes. I've seen how you are. So they don't take it that seriously. Other people are just like, oh, my God, we got a burner at the stake. [00:51:40] Speaker A: I'm like, well, you know, I think that shows that people who are not actually in community with you, you know, exactly. And so they don't really know, you know? And so, you know, because I feel sorry for sometimes for some folks who go into your mentions, it's fun. And then I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no, wait. Like, wait. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Just. [00:52:00] Speaker A: Just recently, you were banned. [00:52:04] Speaker B: We had to. [00:52:05] Speaker A: We had to advocate to get back. Can you tell the talk. Let's talk about that real quick. [00:52:11] Speaker B: There's something that there were men that were ugly. You're not allowed to say that men are ugly on any meta platform, and that is directly due to Mark Zuckerberg being ugly. He struggles with that. And in all of his billionaire status, he has made it so that you cannot say that men are ugly or you risk losing your account because he is an ugly man with Instagram. [00:52:34] Speaker A: Do you know how bad I was digging? I was digging like, wait, what did she say? What? I kept trying to look for the thing, and when you posted the screenshot of what it was, I was like, you have got to be kidding me. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Everybody was like, are you. Are you serious? But that again, so you can't take it as a random thing. It is feminista Jones. It is somebody who has enough power to organize, like, 100,000 people in a few days. Right? It is a person who is writing these things and teaching and is the woke. She's like leader of the woke mob, right? [00:53:13] Speaker A: They thought they were going to give you a public lashing. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Everything, any opportunity they can to try to shut me down. They're like, oh, she's not on Twitter anymore. She's over here on. On threads. Wow. Let's watch her. You know, she doesn't use Facebook as much as we'd like. She's on Instagram, but we've suppressed her there. Let's watch her on this threads thing, because we got to make sure and see what influence she's having. [00:53:37] Speaker A: If you were talking to anybody else, they would be like, you talking conspiracy theories. And I'm sitting here listening to what you're saying, and I'm like, I know, of course they're what you think. They don't. You think the analytics is only for our eyes? [00:53:50] Speaker B: No, but that's why I talk to you. I don't talk to people who are not smart. Like, again, you asked me about those conversations. I no longer have it in me to do that so called work, you know? And there are people that are out there. They're like anti racist educators and all this. I'm like, great. You play that role. [00:54:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:54:08] Speaker B: I just got my blood pressure under control. [00:54:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely, baby. I have got some balance in my life right now and the way. The way that it is. I know. Okay, so. Okay, so I do. I do have to ask you, though, about Project 2025, because, again, that's what I want people to take away from this conversation that we. This is a brilliant black woman I'm talking about. And I can focus on all of the topics of the day, and I can focus on the. A lot of the things, even Project 25, politics, all these different things. And I love your perspective and the value that you can contribute for each of those things. But what I want people to understand is what is underneath it all? It's not. And because what's underneath it all is a human. And what I mean by that is just what you said before. You're no better or less than anyone else except for the value and choices that you have made that have created the experiences that is your life. But other people can access those things, too, if they're willing to take the risk, if they're willing to do those things. What does it look like for black people right now to take a risk in this political climate when you have Project 2025 right around the corner and people are telling you, we cannot risk this. We cannot risk a Trump presidency. We cannot risk them green lighting this thick book of Project 2025. So we must vote for Kamala Harris. [00:55:48] Speaker B: Yeah. No tea, no shade, but they gonna do it anyway. So I need people to be smart enough to understand one. They've been doing it. I've read through it, right? I read it, like, about three times now. I read it. Half the stuff is stuff they already been doing. So I don't understand why people are all freaking out. I'm like, oh, you didn't know that this was already a thing. Like it is. It may not have touched your life, though, right? But as they say in their opening, they've been advising conservative leadership for the last 40 years. So, you know, this is a lot is not new, but also, it is risky, right? People say, well, it's actually only risky in Pennsylvania and Michigan. Everybody else can vote however they want to vote. But again, you gotta know these things. You gotta know electoral college. [00:56:36] Speaker A: You talk about the electoral college, right? [00:56:37] Speaker B: You gotta know where it's at. I can say I'm not voting for Kamala Harris because I live in a very blue state. I know my state is gonna go to them. So I have a bit, I don't wanna say privilege because I don't believe black people have privilege in this. In this world. But I can say that I can make that choice to not vote for her, to conscientiously abstain from voting, you know, because of my own thing, because I already know that that's gonna happen. Right. It's tougher for the folks that are in those, like, seven counties that, you know, call the election to vote, you know, maybe with their conscience. And again, as I said earlier, I'm not gonna be mad at you for doing what you feel like you need to do. Right? That's important. The same time, I just want to make sure that all of our voices can be heard and people can understand there is diversity in our political thought. There's diversity in what we are hoping to achieve. They're like, oh, you're just not going to vote. Well, I did vote. I voted uncommitted in the primaries. Right. That is a vote. I did. And I. You know, however I vote going forward, it is what it is. But I. I don't think that people. Okay, how do I say this without being offensive? [00:57:43] Speaker A: Say however you need to say, honey. [00:57:46] Speaker B: I think that we need higher political literacy. I think that we need a lot. [00:57:55] Speaker A: More reading comprehension, period. [00:57:57] Speaker B: Yes. Well, yes. Okay, so we. So I talk a lot about literacy. You know, 85% of black people in America cannot read beyond an 8th grade level. [00:58:08] Speaker A: Do you understand that there? And do you understand that a lot of people. Do you understand that? A lot of people are hiding it? Do you understand that? I have ran into so many. I'm getting goosebumps because I know people. I have no people, and they are remaining in a space and almost hiding the fact that they really can't read and not putting effort to increasing that skill or addressing that certain thing and getting all kinds of upset about all kind of conversations. [00:58:37] Speaker B: Hard. It's. I mean, because when you cannot read, you cannot function in, you know, society in so many ways. And so it is very difficult for a lot of people and the embarrassment, the shame, and all those things. But I also want to remind black people, this is something that was done to us, okay? It was illegal for us to learn how to read. So the fact that we have these statistics now is not surprising. However, I have to bring them up because they affect these conversations. They matter when we have these conversations. Okay? So if you can't name all three branches of the government, right, which only one in three Americans can actually do, how do we have a conversation about Project 2025 and what the impact is on? They're like, oh, well, if Trump wins, he can appoint, you know, these people to the Supreme Court. Who's retiring, y'all? Do you even know the ages of the folks? You don't, right? So you're sitting here fear mongering saying, oh, he's gonna be able to appoint, ain't nobody retiring. If he loses, all the conservatives are gonna stay right there and they're not going to retire. If he wins and they do happen to leave, he's just replacing them. This is the kind of knowledge and critical thinking that needs to exist for us to have these conversations. So I can't have a conversation with somebody saying, oh, my God, he's going to appoint all these people to the Supreme Court. No, he's not, right? It's not going to happen neither. [01:00:01] Speaker A: Like you said, there's so much political, there's so much political theater that happens. Yeah, you're right. There's so much political theater. [01:00:08] Speaker B: I call it political theater because to me, it's, the DNC is coming up and I am ready for this. Cause it's all theatrical. [01:00:17] Speaker A: It's all gonna be a show nonsensical because, well, you thought it was the only, the RNC. I thought that only the RNC was the WWF match. You know, where you're watching this whole show and they're like, yeah, and then the DNC is the same. [01:00:34] Speaker B: It's the circus. It's all, it's all. [01:00:36] Speaker A: But now, you know, not the exact. [01:00:38] Speaker B: Same, but they dropping, they dropping. So we're starting to see who's on the lineup now. And that's getting spicy. And I'm very interested in that. But what I wanted to do with Project 2025, part of why I went through and started extracting it is because I understood that our people can't access it in the same ways. And I, as an educator, I'm like, okay, well, my job is to read things, interpret it, to still it, teach it, and get it out there. So I went through, I made two videos that are about almost 5 hours total. I wrote a long form piece extracting different things that I like, really summarizing what I think it is. But ultimately, what I need people to walk away and understand is that Donald Trump is not the key to Project 2025 being implemented. They can do whatever they want. They will do what they want. They have been doing what they want. And a lot of the fear mongering is really interesting. They're like, oh, he's going to shut down affordable, the Affordable Care act. He said that last time. Did it happen because he's incompetent, right? He's going to do this. He's going to. No, he's not. No, he's not. [01:01:48] Speaker A: So you don't think, you don't think that he could implement dictatorship like he. [01:01:52] Speaker B: Wants to on day one, Donald Trump does anything. So that's, that's the bottom line. He has handlers. He doesn't do anything. He is a scapegoat. When things go wrong, they can say, well, we never really like that clown anyway. You know, it's, it's all political theater. At the end of the day, if Vice President Harris is elected as the president, it will be monumentous. Yes. It will be a moment in history. The first woman president. She is not a white woman. She's still very much Democrat establishment. She's wealthy, you know, highly educated, etcetera. She's a coastal elite, all those great things. But it's still going to be pretty monumental. And we can celebrate that for what it is. I do not have to, in my conscience, cast a vote for someone who has said she's had unwavering support for Israel since she was a child. And so when I hear that, right, when I hear that coming out of her mouth, and then I hear her meeting privately with Netanyahu and then coming out and saying that they have unwavering United States support, I'm like, okay, that's fine. You all can vote for her if that makes you feel good, but I cannot. And I wasn't going to vote for Biden, so why would I vote for her? Because they're not, she's not doing anything different. The only difference is that she is a woman and she is half black and half indian. It's the same agenda, the same everything. So I'm kind of looking at some people funny. I was like, well, you swore you weren't voting for Biden. Like, you were so anti Biden. Now you're so pro Kamala. And I'm like, the platform ain't changed. In fact, we don't have a platform because they don't have anything on the website but give us money and vibes. [01:03:26] Speaker A: So when you started calling that out, I was just like, what is it. [01:03:31] Speaker B: Like, okay, we're donating to vibes. You already came in with tens of millions of dollars, and then you raised another 80 million more. What do you need so that you can land and these, these airport hangars and pay for all of that? Okay, whatever. We don't have to go there. The bottom line is that our folks in my opinion at that time, when it came to project 2025, I felt like there needed some, there needs to be some summarization interpretation because, you know. [01:03:58] Speaker A: And where can I get this? [01:04:00] Speaker B: Oh, so if you go, it's free on my Patreon. Patreon.com. jones. Yep. It's free. It's open, it's public. And you can go to my instagram and, like, kind of scroll and look at my project 2025 videos that I've made where I was, like, kind of walking through that just because people also, because I know that a lot of people won't even read a long form piece about it. I made the video. [01:04:22] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:23] Speaker B: Part of being a good educator is meeting people where they are and understanding the needs. And so that's what I did. But I'm in a lot of groups, like, on Facebook and stuff on my personal account, and just the ignorance born of illiteracy, it's really scary. And so I'm way more concerned about that than I am about the empire. The empire is going to do what it did. It did what it did when Obama was president, right? It's going to do what it's going to do. I'm more interested in the, you know, the experiences, everyday experiences of our people. [01:04:53] Speaker A: So. Okay. And then, you know, I'm gonna let you go, but I'm gonna say this. We definitely. And, you know, you know, I'm available. You know, I just couldn't make that thing happen on that date. You had, like, a teaching for your class, but, you know, you. The line is open. Oh, please, please, please. But I definitely have to have you on again when it makes sense for you and your schedule and everything, but because there's just so much more I would love to dive into, because I really do appreciate your stance. Like, and I just need to, like, I want people to start to be able to slow down and to see things and to value things. And so when I say that, I value your stance, the way you. The way you stand firmly and the way you stand with lightheartedness, even in the midst of, like, all these different, like, heavy different things, I know that it's not always easy to do that because I am someone who operates in a similar space, and it's been difficult for me to sometimes ask for help or signal that I need some support. But just know that I'm in your community of that support. [01:06:11] Speaker B: I love it. [01:06:12] Speaker A: One of the words I want to drop in this moment right now, I drop it often, often is responsibility. And just that a friend, a buddhist friend gave me this definition of it as the ability to respond. And just talking about you just talking about voting, voting for Kamala Harris, you doing your part, what you know, you do, what your state is, what the risks are with all the different things are. I see a lot of people asking a lot of questions, and they seem to be asking more questions of me and you and other folks who have maybe a different perspective than they are of their political people that they're voting for. They're giving money without asking a single question that they've asked us. Yes. So I guess what I want to ask and sort of tap on is what does responsibility look like intersectionally for black people, for brown people, for palestinian people, for people with criminal backgrounds, seeing millions of dollars and things like that go into building cop cities across the country and to then have a candidate who has often described herself as a cop. Top cop. Top cop. Top cop. So when I think about responsibility as the ability to respond, I'm now putting myself in a place where I'm accepting. And I felt like I heard you say the same thing, but, like, these are the choices they are making. Cool. You said that you are have an unwavering commitment to Israel. That was, that was your response, and that was your ability as a leader in this space was at as much access to information more than the, more than I. So that the fact that you keep mentioning October 7 even is a spit in the face of so many people. So I don't know if I have, because, listen, I have put on my, I put on my instagram, in big, bold letters, I am voting for Kamala Harris. And then underneath it, try to explain so that y'all know that, that I said, I'm willing to do that so that you don't get confused about all the questions I now, real questions I have about her, her candidacy, where this is going, certain, I've been very mindful about what I am saying. However, I've been extremely mindful at this point. And, and now I'm at a place where I remember watching some white dude on tv talking about he just, with his conscience, he couldn't vote for Biden. And I thought to myself, at this moment, this woman, Biden was a candidate. I thought to myself, wow, that's a pretty privileged place to be because I'm just thinking, as a black trans woman, I don't know if I have the privilege to say I want to vote with my conscience, and I'm not voting for Kamala Harris. But just through this conversation alone, just through this conversation alone. You have given me sort of the courage and just the space to respond the way I want to respond to if this is what is being presented to me into what is a thing. Like, I am a trans person, I am a black person, I am a woman identified person. I'm all these things. But I want to give myself the privilege to separate myself from the, I guess, single issue or single mindedness that they even would think. [01:10:18] Speaker B: I know such thing as. [01:10:20] Speaker A: So backwards. It's so backwards. But just saying that I pull myself away from that to say that with all of those things considered, what's my response to someone who stances that. [01:10:35] Speaker B: Your response is, do vote however you want to vote because it's your vote. It is your vote. [01:10:41] Speaker A: It's my vote. Right. [01:10:43] Speaker B: I wish people would respect that. Like, it is your vote. It is your right to do with your vote whatever you want to do. People before us fought very hard for us to have the freedom to vote, just as they fought for the freedom for people to have abortions. Does that mean everybody's going to go have an abortion? No, it just means that they want to be free to be able to do so if they choose. The same with the vote. Right. Especially when you're operating under electoral college. Again, it's political theater. Especially when you have the delegates who could change their vote if they really wanted to. It's political theater. So when you have someone like Hillary Rod and Clinton getting millions more of the popular vote and she was not the president, again, it is political theater. So we're going along with that. So if a person wants to perform theatrically and go and vote for Kamala, it means something to them. It's significant. I am not going to tell them not to do that. I've never once said to people that they should note, vote for her. I've only spoken about what you're going to do. My own choices, and at the end of the day, it's my vote. My choice. You guys understand? My body, my choice. Why don't you understand my vote. My choice. Right. [01:11:59] Speaker A: I think that you just came up with the title of this episode. My voice, my vote, my choice with feminist Jones baby. Oh, my goodness. Yes. So I definitely. We definitely. I'm definitely tapping in again. I got goosebumps. I hope you have a great rest of the day educating folks. I hope you feel valued and that the. Yeah. And that you just. [01:12:20] Speaker B: I hope you do, too, because I see how they are treating you and doing things, and I would love to know which transgender woman they are going to pluck to speak at the DNC this year, and I kind of have an idea who I think they'll go with, but we'll see if it even happens, right? You should be speaking there. You should be the person, because you have such a prominent voice and you've been doing this work. But again, this is the empire. [01:12:52] Speaker A: But they won't invite me without. They won't invite me without strings. And that has been the conversation that I. [01:13:00] Speaker B: Are you being their puppet? [01:13:03] Speaker A: Am I going to be a photo op? [01:13:05] Speaker B: No, their puppet. You talked about, you know, allow them to make you their puppet. Or do we honor the fact that we have these independent platforms where we can go and say what they want to say? That's what you should do. You should give. This would have been my DNC speech if I had been invited. How about you do that? [01:13:26] Speaker A: We should do, like, a live something that's just like, you know, like, I feel, okay, let's percolate on something, you know, because, like, you know, because especially when you got. Especially when you got what you're saying, the picked voices that are going to be up there saying everything and skating on a line so some of us can cheer, but still you're not really saying nothing. So, you know, and then clout, they. [01:13:52] Speaker B: Want the clout of being on such a national, international stage. They'll go and they'll be picked to do whatever. Like, honestly, again, you know, that's where I do start to let my opinions and stuff and my thoughts come in because it's like, no, I don't see it for you. It's cool. You can do what you want to do. I'm not inviting you to the cookout, though. You ain't coming to my house. You can tap dance over there if you want to. You ain't coming to my house. And that's okay. Now, if it matters to you or that you're upset because you're not allowed to come to my house because you decided to tap dance for the empire, then that's the choice that you made. But my macaroni and cheese can't be touched. So my choice. [01:14:31] Speaker A: Do you understand? I feel like people have an understanding sometimes. It's very one sided. Because what I know is that the choices that I made, I knew that I was accepting the consequences with that choice of losing jobs, losing favor, losing certain things, while you had to also understand that if you were making the opposite choice, you knew that because you were going to be gaining from not making the type of choices that I'm making. So when things swing or if things are different or what happens, whatever, please know that your choice was your choice that came with the consequences that it did. And it's not about being punitive, but it's about the admission price for community being accountability. And if you cannot pay that price. [01:15:19] Speaker B: The admission price for community is accountability. A lot of these folks get online and complain they can't find a tribe. They don't have no community. People don't stick to, yes, we do. [01:15:28] Speaker A: They don't want to be accountable. [01:15:29] Speaker B: Yes, we have community. Yes, we want to be able to. [01:15:32] Speaker A: Say whatever they want to say in the name of jokes, in the name of this or whatever are going viral or this instead of community upon creating. [01:15:42] Speaker B: You don't get to do that. And that's how I know a lot of people aren't in community because they ain't never had nobody chin check them. I get my friends will chin check me in a second? Because they can, because they know me. [01:15:51] Speaker A: And they'll be like, I have a small circle that can do that because I'm telling you, it's a small circle. And I have to. I have to, like, literally seek out certain type of people because organically around me, I haven't. I had to come to the realization that I was intimidating to a lot of people. And so some people didn't even feel like they could chin check me. But it's like, girl, that's what comes with being strong. Both of us, like, exactly. [01:16:18] Speaker B: Totally relatable. I hate the fact that there's some folks in my life that I'm like, are you afraid to say no to me? Like, have I made you feel like that? Yes. I'm passionate. I'm outspoken. I'm 6ft tall. I'm a big woman. I get it. But have I ever made you feel unsafe? Because if I've made you feel unsafe, then that's not the objective issue. Whether or not you feel like, you can tell me no. And so the people who say no to me or the people who correct me or tin check me, those are people I know love me the most because they want me to be my best self, especially as somebody who's a public figure. They want to make sure that I'm doing what I need to do to maintain the connection I have with my audiences and with the folks out there. So that's important and I value that. But understand that I am almost always right. So I see the same. Because when I am wrong, I say I'm wrong. That's one thing absolutely about me is that I'm like, you know what? I was wrong. I'm sorry. I mean, you know, that was messed up. I didn't mean to say that. Or, you know, I didn't know that I was wrong about that. That was fair. I have no problem saying that because it happens so rarely. [01:17:23] Speaker A: I'll do it, you know, feminist. [01:17:27] Speaker B: I love this. I'm honored that you invited me on to be able to have a conversation like this, because I need people to see what black woman solidarity looks like across various things, you know, different spaces or what have you. And. Yes. Okay, you're trans. Yes, I'm cis. Okay, great. Whatever. We still. We're black women, and we're navigating this world as black women, and everything that comes with it comes with it. Right. Except one of us has a girlfriend and one of us doesn't. [01:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. You notice that? I did. I did. I did kind of introduce her to the world. I really. It was a rocket launch, you know, all of a sudden. Then when I saw the gay magazine had tagged us and tagged us in the photo, and then, you know, to see the comment section and to see people in our own, like, because these are you talking about people who follow gay news. And now we know a lot of straight people can't help themselves, but to follow straight gay gay business. But this particular account, you know, is mostly people in the community following. And the comments were so off that the comments were so offensive. Basically saying that, now I'm in a heterosexual relationship, calling me a man with a woman like that. We didn't. People not knowing that I've already had my surgery. [01:18:54] Speaker B: People saying that, oh, people are so stupid. Oh, God. [01:18:58] Speaker A: Lesbians saying that I can't be a lesbian. Like, it was just so. It was, girl, if you just take a look in there, girl, it's. But. [01:19:06] Speaker B: But, you know, and I'm aries. I'm a fighter. We're loyal cheerleaders. I'll be in there swinging at everybody who says something wrong. [01:19:15] Speaker A: Well, you know what? There are people already in there swinging right now. Cause they're like, I cannot believe that we have this much, this far to go in our own community. But what's worse is I see people who are not in the community somehow seeing this and saying, whoa, y'all look. Even in their own community, they saying they're confused about this. [01:19:34] Speaker B: Well, that happens with black folks too. That happens with women. Right? You know, we. The yes. All women stuff and all, you know, that happens. Every community is gonna have you know, those kinds of things that people are gonna look and say, see, they can't even get along. Nobody does that with white people, right? Nobody does that with white men. Nobody does that with heterosexuals. See, look at those heterosexuals. They disagree on, you know, Chris Brown and Rihanna. Look at them. The heterosexuals can't figure it out. Nobody does that. So I don't. I don't allow for it to permeate. I don't allow it for it to be anything that, you know, resonates too deeply with me. Because again, and I'm gonna say this, and then I'm gonna go, people are, by and large, not smart. And. I'm sorry. [01:20:16] Speaker A: I mean, I think that was a full sentence. [01:20:19] Speaker B: Thank you. I love you. [01:20:21] Speaker A: Thank you for taking this time and, you know, us going overtime, but we are going to include all of this. So thank you for your valuable time. Thank you again so much, feminista Jones, for just being so unapologetically you. Thank you for inspiring me every day to think critically, to read more, to read the article, to be able to challenge the system and the status quo, as well as building coalitions and community with folks. Folks who are willing to do the work and to be as inclusive as they possibly can with it. So thank you also for including me in your book, reclaiming our spaces with so many incredible thought leaders that you included in that book. So just thank you so much for including me and being so intersectional, if y'all haven't already. Definitely, you need to pick up her book, reclaiming our spaces. All right, that's it for our episode for today. But before we go, you know, I gotta drop a little buddhist breadcrumb. And I just want to talk about Nichiren Daishonin himself, whose teachings are what we study in the SGI as Nichiren Buddhists. Now, I want to talk about sort of this profound distinction that was made by Nichiren himself when he basically called out the entire country of Japan, the government, for attempting to corrupt the essence of the religion and the beautiful practice of Buddhism, to create a hierarchy of power, influence, and control. Sound familiar? Nichiren was a part of this priesthood, but ultimately he was exiled because he just was not down with the fact that basically they were going along with the government. They were blessing wars, as if spirituality has anything to do with killing human lives and war. I mean, our society would have us believe that evil is necessary. And again, in Buddhism, we understand there's a. There's a concept of oneness and good, of good and evil. But that's not the same thing. It's not the same thing that, you know, saying evil is necessary. So let's bomb these children and bomb these countries and take people's land. Nichiren basically warned the country that if y'all keep following this erroneous Buddhism that's telling y'all, y'all can align with wars and do all this stuff and that there are priests who are more closer to enlightenment and more worthy than the everyday person. You leading people in the wrong direction, baby. And because of that, this land is going to experience a lot of trauma. Y'all gonna experience famine, a bunch of natural disasters, just all kinds, wars, all kind of things. Because y'all following erroneous teaching. And that is what has been at the core of y'all know my energy, refuting erroneous teachings when I hear them. Not to mention I'm grappling with my ADHD and being neurodivergent and realizing I just always have a thing to call a thing a thing and just really don't want to feel like fluffing it up for nobody. But now my spiritual practice actually affirms me in radically standing firm, even if I have to stand alone, even if I am exiled out of society and out of communities because I'm saying the thing that makes people uncomfortable, but it's the truth. We are supposedly, in America, one nation under God. But what God are is this country serving? What God is this country serving? Look around. What God is this country serving? When there are people and officials in those churches that are abusing children that are telling lgbtq people that they have no value, that are funding that kind of mentality. Over in Uganda, where they want to kill gay people, what God are we under here? This is a place where we want to champion freedom of religion. Practice it however you see fit, but it should improve your life. It should not be as religion should not be a means to control people. And that's what Nidran was warning folks about. But, you know, the government didn't listen, of course, you know, and exiled him. And so when he was exiled, Nitron wrote all of these letters, and those letters are in two volumes of these books. And that's basically what we study as nitran Buddhists, the writings of Nitran Daishonin. You can read any of these [email protected]. but all in all, I really bring that up because I really want people to understand where I am coming from. Like, I feel in lockstep with Nichiren in lockstep with our first SGI president, Tsunasaburo Makaguchi, who died in prison for these values. He was locked up because he wouldn't go along with the military and Japan and the government. Jose Toda, who proclaimed that we should abolish nuclear weapons. He was our second SGI president. Our third SGI president, Daisaku Ikeda. They're each one carrying on the vow of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. But of course, the Lotus Sutra, which Buddha said is the highest teaching showing that everybody, regardless of position or physical ability, of mental capacity, of whatever, everybody can have a valuable life. Everybody can have enlightenment. It's here for all of us. We can all experience heaven right here on earth. But the truth is we can also experience hell right here on earth. So when you wonder why I'm moving and talking and doing things the way I am, I'm just being like nature. I'm just being like. My spiritual mentors have taught me to be. To stand firm in the face of injustice, to refute erroneous teachings and to reflect for everybody the value that we all have. I value myself. I love myself. I know I'm talented. I know I'm worthy. I want you to know that too. And know that for yourself. So this week, I want you to maybe, you know, think like Nichiren. And if, you know, Nichiren's too far fetched, maybe a little bit like Angelica, you know, or, you know, again, we got Jose Toto, we got Nichiren, we got, you know, Sunosaboro, makaguchi. We got. The Buddha. Point is that the Buddha is in every one of us. Each one of us can call upon and drum up this sort of courage to face evil head on to show compassion for others who we may not understand. Please, y'all find a chance this week to be like nitro. And even if you have to stand alone and separate yourself sometimes from people who ain't necessarily seeing things as clearly as they should be seeing it. We don't gotta force folks to see things or what have you. Listen, we don't gotta browbeat people into caring about other people. But over here in this house and maybe in yours, we believe that everyone deserves to be able to live their life in peace. To be able to love whoever they want to love and to be able to be valued just as they are. No opportunity wasted.