Unpacking the Black Friend with Frederick Joseph

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to now. I'm your host, Angelica Ross. You're going to be seeing me do my whole setup live, kind of live because, you know, we do have some pre recorded aspects of the podcast, but I am using all this technology. I have streamyards, excuse me, not streamyard, stream labs going right now. We're streaming to YouTube, kind of x, a couple different things. This is just going to be a first time tester, but for the future, I got a little setup ready for you. [00:00:32] Speaker B: Okay? [00:00:32] Speaker A: So welcome back to now. And I'm your host, Angelica Ross. Today is Monday, September 15, and our word from Buddhism. Day by day, wisdom for a modern life by Daisaku Ikeda says, quote, one thing is certain is that the power of belief, the power of thought will move reality in the direction of what we believe and conceive of it. If you really believe you can do something, you can. That is a fact. It's also true that if you don't believe you can do something, you won't be able to do it. This is an area where if you don't have it yet, that's where you can start to develop faith in yourself and in the things that you want to accomplish in life. Could start right there. All right, so for those that are listening, I'm, like I said, I'm actually trying something new here tonight and I'm recording my, the weekly aspect of the podcast live right now on YouTube. And then I'm going to download it and upload it. So, but normally this will be sort of a feature that's exclusive to my YouTube subscribers and members. So I have finally been approved for the YouTube partnership program. After reaching, you know, a few milestones, we have about 3800 subscribers now on YouTube. And over 3000 hours of our videos have been watched. And so now we can finally begin to monetize things. You know, a girl needs to make a little coin. So, long story short, I started this podcast off in February, and I started it off with, you know, with the, with a partnership, hoping that, you know, listen, I basically said from the beginning that I was willing to do this podcast myself. You know, obviously I can put up the lights, the cameras, I can video edit. I can do a lot of things, you know, but my team and my agents and my management was all like, yes, great. But, you know, we feel like we want to get you with the right team and get you with a full team so that you can launch this and it can start with the bang that you need to have it launched with a. So I was like, okay, cool. Well, the bang was not a bang. And the reason why I wasn't a bang is because, you know, I felt like just me being just honest, I felt like the people that I was working with, they were looking at the fact that I have 480,000 followers on Instagram. But, you know, after a while, I think they were just. They were really counting on a conversion rate of some of those followers over to the podcast. But they weren't, you know, taking into consideration that my platform was being shadow banned and it was experiencing some heavy suppression from meta because I was speaking up about Palestine. So, you know, which also is affecting, you know, my corporate sponsorships. I mean, not that I'm, again, you know, capitalism is what it is, but again, being a, quote unquote celebrity and having, you know, a certain platform, I would have deals with all kind of companies posting on my Instagram stories and reels starting at $10,000. And that has all but stopped because they can't see their. Their return on investment in my metrics anymore because my metrics are being suppressed by meta. And I'm not spreading lies. I'm not saying misinformation. I'm just trying to amplify the voices of the people of Palestine and in Congo and Sudan, all of the things I've been sharing so much on my platform until I realized, like I said on a previous episode, that it was kind of, my efforts were somewhat futile on that platform because it's hard coded, the suppression's hard coded, so they're only going to let me get so much reach there. So the partners that were salivating over that many followers and trying to get that to, you know, kind of easily cross over, well, you know, no pun intended. It did not cross over. And so I ended up carrying a lot of the weight and building this podcast episode by episode with the help of a small, talented team. So, thank you. Marcel Hutchins, Jake Metersky. Murtursky. Murtursky and Jared. I've never, I know I've never really said folks names, like full names. I just called it by their first names. So I've never really said their full name. So this is kind of the first time I said so. Marcel Hutchins, Jake Murtursky, and Jared Parisi, I believe, and crowd management. Thank you so much for all the support that you have been giving me as I kind of do this one woman show in physicality. But you have been, you know, working with me remotely to make this the best that we can make this. Thank you to everybody that's viewing right now. I see we got a lot of folks tapped in right now. So with that being said, I am using this as an opportunity to expand my listeners experience by inviting you all to join the winner circle. All our listeners, you're already winners, so that's what I'm calling all our listeners, our winners. But you can officially now join the winner circle with a membership on YouTube. So not only will you get exclusive access to things like watching this and watching me tape live for the podcast, you can submit questions and more. You might be able to even like pop on video. I actually have that ability for if you got good lighting, you know, and good, you know, if you got a good setup and want to pop on video and ask a question or get some advice or something, you know, we might be able to do a little bit of that, too, you know. So there's different levels to it. So the basic level is only $4.99. So basically the different levels will give you access to the full winner's circle experience, which is very exclusive. It's actually, you get either a monthly or a weekly exclusive live experience. That's just us, just only the members that are on that level. And we talk about whatever you want to talk about. I can go into depth about buddhist concepts. I can talk about and give you my opinion on, you know, some things that are happening right now in current affairs, or you can ask me personal questions and guidance, whatever that is. But that's only going to be once a month for certain folks and weekly for a certain, you know, hey, Alana. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Hey. [00:07:32] Speaker A: Weekly for some other folks. So if you want to get in on that, [email protected] at missross. That's YouTube.com dot r o S S. Yes, the name of the YouTube is Miss Ross. You know, that's where it all goes down is Miss Ross. Whether we're in the winner's circle, whether we're on the podcast now, it's all going [email protected]. forward slash at Miss Ross. You can click there right now and join the live stream for as members, certain members you can also comment in. So if you are a certain member at a certain level, again, only 499 you can comment on the videos. And at different levels, you know, you get all kind of perks. So I'm making this first video available to everybody. So now for my conversation with the author and poet Frederick Joseph, where we explore the intersectionality of advocacy work and the challenges faced by marginalized communities. We talk about the pyramid of privilege where white women and black men often align with systems of power to gain their own benefits. And we also highlight the importance of dismantling these systems to create true equality for all. Y'all ready for this conversation? All right, I want you to take a listen. [00:08:59] Speaker B: Frederick Joseph, what's going on? I feel like when I say that, I'm saying your government, but that's what you go by, right? I feel like I'm giving people your full government. [00:09:14] Speaker C: I was. It's amazing how long it's been. I saw a memory maybe a year ago. We went to the beach this one time, and that was. [00:09:26] Speaker B: I remember, yeah. So that was in the Hamptons, I think. [00:09:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was, like, eight years ago. [00:09:34] Speaker B: Eight years ago. [00:09:35] Speaker C: It was like, seven or eight years ago, yeah. [00:09:37] Speaker B: That's how long it's been that we've been out here doing the work, trying, trying, you know? And one thing that I will let people know. Okay. Like, for those that don't know, Frederick Joseph, author, advocate, great husband, you know, I guess so. I'm assuming, you know, but, you know, for folks that don't know, like, sort of the fact that we've even owned each other for that long and the type of work. Talk to me about, because this is 2024, so we're talking. What's a. Don't. Don't make me do math on camera. [00:10:16] Speaker C: But, like, yeah, we looking at, like, 20 was. You got me messed up. That was like. That's like, 2015, 2016 somewhere. Yeah, somewhere. [00:10:26] Speaker B: I know. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So between then and now, as an advocate at the intersections that you've been at, what kind of progress have you seen? Um, in the conversation, I guess because you sit at an intersectional conversation of, like, obviously, black liberation. But also, you've been an ally to us in the LGBTQ community. You've been an ally to women with your book patriarchy blues. So has the converse. And not to mention, you know, like, let me tell you something. When you did the black friend or what have you, I was like, okay, I'm gonna let you go ahead and do your thing over there, because I know that you're talking to the white people over there about the white, white friend. But now that book has been banned, right? It's one of the books that's been banned. So, you know, you've been having these type of conversations. Talk to me about what's changed. For the good or for the better. [00:11:31] Speaker C: Well, first of all, for those listening, it is. It's an honor. Like, truly, you know, I've always I've always been able to, like, even just seeing you do certain things, send you a text, just loving on you, you know, just proud of you. But, God, I'm so proud of you. And I just wanted to say that from. From jump, I actually also saw that episode that you did a bit ago, Raquel. [00:12:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another phenomenal, phenomenal book. For those who haven't gotten the risk. [00:12:06] Speaker B: It takes, the bloom. [00:12:08] Speaker C: Yes, yes. That book is it. But yeah, to your question, I'm gonna be real. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna, you know, listen, that's. [00:12:16] Speaker B: What we are here. That's all we got time for, is being real. [00:12:20] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, so we're going backwards. I think that even some of the progress that I saw, because I do get to be in different communities, right. Like, I have the privilege and the honor to be invited into spaces with trans folks who trust me, to be invited into spaces with queer folks who trust me, with. With women who trust me, with non binary people, but then also sit in spaces with cishet folks and, you know, people who are liberation focused, but also people who are, you know, sadly, deeply capitalist focused. Right. And so. Yes, but what I did see years ago was us starting to have certain conversations, and I think that there has been a strategic dismantling of those conversations. [00:13:08] Speaker B: Twitter was one of those. [00:13:10] Speaker C: Yes. [00:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:11] Speaker C: In the ways that they become mainstream, because I think a few things have happened. One, Twitter was a huge thing for. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Maybe we were connecting. [00:13:20] Speaker C: Yes, yes. So if. Let's say. I just want to call. Let's just call it. Let's just talk about it. Right. I saw what had happened, at least obviously, after the fact, with, what is her name, the Nepo baby who was being transphobic with you? [00:13:38] Speaker B: Emma Roberts. [00:13:40] Speaker C: Yes, I saw that. But the issue is, had that happened a few years earlier, the ways we could have engaged around it because of, like, a Twitter and certain things and held. Had more accountability around, it would have been different. That's just not. That's just the truth. [00:13:58] Speaker B: I think it was strategic, you know, but it's also a situation where unfortunately, and, you know, who knows, if I ever have the chance to sort of sit down and talk with her about all the things, you know, again, it's because it's a situation where, again, we're being real. Right. I don't. I, you know, I just don't have conversations for no reason. I don't put stamp of approval on nobody being like, oh, this person is cool, or okay if they not cool or okay. [00:14:26] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:26] Speaker B: And so my thing is, I looked at her, I said to her straight, I'm just like, listen, it ain't, it ain't, it ain't just this, right? Like, if we're gonna talk about it, right, your. Your fans know you. There's threads on Twitter everywhere about your behavior. [00:14:47] Speaker C: Right? Right. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Not to mention, I know my colleagues, what they know and told me, and blah, blah, none of them might say anything because that's what, you know, the culture of our thing is, is what it is. But, like, so I want to talk about how you, as a white woman, is being a tyrant, right? And I was included in your play, in the game, the games that you play. But that wasn't just a one off situation. You've been playing games with everybody all season. And I was basically dodging bullets left and right, thinking that, like, I was not, you know, it's water for ducks back. Water for ducks back. But, like, again, when we have these Hollywood roundtable conversations and you got white women at the table with black women, a lot of them white women ain't talking about how they flex their power on set. And it's not about diversity. It's about how much they can get. [00:15:38] Speaker C: Right? I mean, that's. That is, I think one of the reasons why I think we've gone backwards is because we conflated progress with white women's progress, right. And that white women want to dismantle patriarchal constructs so much as it benefits cis white women. Right. And realistically, I'm being really honest. I don't even think sometimes it's just cis white women. I think that it's just white women as a whole. From what I've seen, particularly in mind right now, the issue is whiteness. [00:16:15] Speaker B: Caitlyn Jenner, you know, the folks, you know, sign up to that, too, so. [00:16:19] Speaker C: Exactly. So the issue is whiteness. And because whiteness became the leader, supposedly in progressive spaces, supposedly, once again, the work stopped happening. Right. The work became capitalism, I think, especially in light of 2020. You know, what we. What we saw happen with, you know, quote unquote anti racism, quote unquote patriarchal constructs, quote unquote transphobic constructs, homophobic constructs, so on and so forth, was like, oh, well, McDonald's made their money, and so, you know, we're on to the next thing, right? And I actually posted a poem about this the other day. Just the love and the work only existing in June for most folks, right? [00:17:01] Speaker B: Or February. [00:17:02] Speaker C: Yes, February. Juneteenth. Right. Like, you know, I'm gonna sell some books on Juneteenth, but are you buying my books when it's not Juneteenth, when it's not black History Month, so on and so forth. Cause I'm still a. If you think I'm a damn good writer on Juneteenth, and I'm a damn good writer on June, you know, 21st and March 9 and so on and so forth. Right. And I think the work specifically in terms of, you know, me trying to be an ally in spaces, and this is just. I have to call a spade a spade once again. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Please do. [00:17:34] Speaker C: I was having better and more. I was having better conversations that were leading people to water a bit more in 2018 and 2019, maybe even 2020, because I feel like what happened was on the other side. Right. Especially when you're talking about. I can only speak to this from. From the point of, like, you know, heterosexual men, right. And specifically cis heterosexual men. There was these people, Joe Rogan and Kevin Samuels and all these different people who gained popularity. [00:18:16] Speaker B: Rest in peace. [00:18:20] Speaker C: You say peace, I say pieces. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Sure. [00:18:22] Speaker C: But. But there were all these people who gained popularity, but the supposed left didn't combat that by saying, like, taking someone such as myself, right, who's like, hey, I'm trying to be intersectional here. I'm trying to have the conversations. I'm trying to. They weren't trying to. White women who own those spaces were not trying to build me up to combat Joe Rogan and Kevin Samuels. And so what you're gonna. What you ended up having now, in 2024, is for years now, these boys and men have been on TikTok, on Instagram, on whatever, learning, and becoming even more rotten because they've been following them. You never gave them an alternative. There are alternatives out here. It's not just, you know, Frederick Joseph, there's plenty of people who are intersectionally womanist, intersectionally feminists, so on and so forth. [00:19:16] Speaker B: But that all sounds like nerd talk. And the reason why I say that is because we're in a culture. I. We're in a culture right now where I don't know if you've ever seen a movie called idiocracy. [00:19:28] Speaker C: Mm hmm. [00:19:29] Speaker B: We're in a culture where that's becoming a reality. Facts, where when people are talking too factual, too many big words, maybe or something, they're like nerds. I want to hear that, you know, whatever. And so what? Because you topped on something to say that our culture has moved towards capitalism being its God, basically, yes. So. And white women basically wanting their slice and not really wanting equality for everybody, but just really wanting to experience that. [00:20:04] Speaker C: Right. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Talk to me about why. How. How does the pyramid of privilege work where white women do that and then we have black men doing that. [00:20:23] Speaker C: Yes. [00:20:24] Speaker B: In a sense that it's still a patriarchal world. [00:20:28] Speaker C: Yes. [00:20:29] Speaker B: So, and you got people like your. Your diddy's. [00:20:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:33] Speaker B: Like your ice cubes, like your Russell Simmons and your lady Charlemagne and all. [00:20:38] Speaker C: These different people, Charlamagne, all of them. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Who have stories that. Where one of their stepping stones was a black woman's back or face or whatever, and they're not truly telling the full narrative. If we're talking about straight outta Compton, we're not talking about how he beat Michele, you know, or all the different things that are happening. And so what worries my heart and my spirit is being a part of this culture that is idolizing folks. And this is why I'm making a move every episode to kind of try to, as much as I can, to try to redefine celebrity and that being people really understanding that celebrity is all about. What are we celebrating you for? [00:21:30] Speaker C: Yes. [00:21:31] Speaker B: And what I know is that success is nice, but we know that we don't want to celebrate success, that. That not just capitalizes off of our community, but that kind of abuses and takes advantage of. And that takes from, in a way, the way that patriarchy takes from women and leaves nothing behind. [00:21:56] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:57] Speaker B: How do we stop the pyramid of privilege? And when every show, even reality show, is like a chance to win at just being able to pay your bills and live and be all right. [00:22:12] Speaker C: Well, first, God, that is such a. That's a word. To the point that you had made before about the nerd talk. I completely agree with that. And just to keep it a band, part of the reason I think that the pyramid exists is because if you have, I mean, you. You been around me for those who have not, I'm six to 230 something pounds. I'm not a little nerdy, little whatever. And I will punch you in your face for talking Angelica a certain way. That's just what it is. Right. But we don't want to. We don't want to amplify that that exists. Right. We want to amplify that Kevin Samuels exists. But not like, oh, you can. [00:22:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:49] Speaker C: You can get punched in your face over some. Some homophobia. It can go down. It is what it is. Right. And that's not. And, you know, you can be out of the community, be like, yeah, we can get it cracking. What's up? You know what I mean? And so we don't build that up, but to the point of the pyramid. So, I mean, at the top of the pyramid is whiteness. And I think that people have to understand that black people are not a deified people. But we talk about us as if we are sometimes as if the very nature of being black means that you are a progressive person. That is not true at all. Right. Progressiveness is a choice and work. Right. It is a choice and work. And most people are not trying to do the take the choice or do the work. And so they choose the easiest thing, and that's proximity to the top of the pyramid, which, again, is whiteness. Right. So white women oftentimes try to ignore the fact that they have the sword of whiteness because they try to use the shield of their womanhood. Right. But there's nothing greater than that sword at the end of the day. [00:23:51] Speaker B: And the proximity is a choice. Like, yes, they are white women, but just because you are white women and that's a white man, doesn't mean that you need to constantly align to the proximity of that privilege. [00:24:04] Speaker C: Right. But it's because they oftentimes within their own whiteness, they don't realize they're not really trying to dismantle patriarchy. What they're trying to do is just swing the pendulum of power towards them that way. [00:24:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:16] Speaker C: You know what I'm saying? [00:24:17] Speaker B: And that's why my point is that's what so many people are trying to. [00:24:22] Speaker C: And that's what I was about to say. Even black men, when we. And that's another thing. It's black men. It's black people. Right. The amount of homophobia, I think even the point that was made recently. [00:24:34] Speaker B: But again, what you're saying with white women, with white women aligning to white supremacy, then you have black women who have been told, uh oh, wait 1 second. I'm sorry, my camera just went out a second. [00:24:48] Speaker C: Don't forget your point. [00:24:49] Speaker B: Not at all. [00:24:53] Speaker A: Let me see if it needs a battery change. Give me one quick 2nd. [00:26:00] Speaker B: 45%. All right, so we're still recording. [00:26:11] Speaker A: That's fine. [00:26:12] Speaker B: I'll just make a note, obviously, in the editing to edit there. [00:26:16] Speaker C: Technology. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Yes. Look, you said not forget your point. And now I just didn't sit down, but. Oh, that's what I was gonna say is, you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, so many black women as well, through the church. Cause there's always so much commentary for black women and how they should live their lives. And, you know, while black men escape a lot of accountability within and outside the church, in the community. But then you've got a lot of black women who've been sold a story that if they align with patriarchy, right. That they will get whatever scraps that patriarchy is trying to give their black man. [00:27:00] Speaker C: Right. That's exactly it. I mean, everybody. And then black men have been told a story that the more you align with white men, you're gonna get their scraps. You know what I mean? And same thing that white women are doing. Oh, you gonna line with white men, get these scraps. Right. So everybody's telling the lie to the next person. Again, it's not just a pyramid. It's a pyramid scheme. Right. [00:27:21] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:22] Speaker C: And that's just what it boils down to. The reason that we're here and the reason why. Hell, I can. [00:27:27] Speaker B: You know what? Honestly, the way. This is the second time. This is because I was just in another conversation. This is the second time. I think it was maybe, Francesca, this is second time that someone has referred to America as a pyramid scheme. And I think that we're just kind of on to something, and I think we're all kind of. Most of, if you are anywhere aware, you're waking up to this. [00:27:48] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think that even the moment that we are in currently, right wherever. I don't know what's gonna happen in November, you know, it's. It's a mess. But it's because people. The reason it's a mess is cause you can't get away with the same things that you got away with in 2008 and 2002. And, you know, in 1998, it is 2024. And people can. We got eyes. We can see, baby. You know, I see it in front of me, you know, like, you know, wild. [00:28:23] Speaker B: That's the audacity that the government. That's what kind of just gets me so upset is when they do stuff in front of your face. Like, even the fact that Joe Biden is making these moves, that he, first of all, self identifies as a Zionist and then makes moves to tell smart people and college students that anti zionism is anti semitism. [00:28:46] Speaker C: And you not just, you know, the funniest thing. They praise these institutions, the students that he's talking to, primarily Columbia, Harvard, Yale, you done told me that these are our best and brightest. Now you calling them dummies. You know, I mean, so when they. [00:29:00] Speaker B: Don'T align it, which one is it? [00:29:02] Speaker C: Right. And. But. And is. And the thing is, even prior to what's taking place in Gaza, right. You already have for me. You not doing enough for the people who you, who you basically got elected on the backs of, right? You said you was going to do more for black folks. You said you was going to do more for trans folks. You said he was going to decide. Third, I remember specifically saying I was a one of Elizabeth Warren's national surrogates. And one of my big things, because like you said, I, I try to sit at the intersections of many things was, that was 2020. I think that was the most deadly year for trans people in history, if on, on record, right? If I'm, if I remember correctly, I think that was the most deadly year at the time. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Well, especially because it was Covid. Covid was going down and the girls still needed to be. [00:29:47] Speaker C: Exactly. And so that was the most deadly, that was the most deadly year. So I had said to Elizabeth Warren, like, this needs to be a thing, right? You need to, if I'm a rock with you, there needs to be some whatever. So when she lost, I remember buying them, asked me to come on and they were like, oh, we saw some of the things that you were talking to Warren about. We going to be doing x, y and Z for trans folks. This had there. I remember two years ago, I reached out and I was like, hey, what happened to those? Because I got, I got three organizations that you probably should look into. They, they, you know, the babies is outside in Florida fighting for their lives. You know, I mean, what are you, what are you doing? And they're like, oh, well, right now is not the time. Like, good luck in 2024. That's all I know. That's all I can say. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Because when, so let me tell you something. That's one thing about this podcast. It's called now for a reason. Because now is always the time. And when we have what we don't realize and what intersectionality should teach everybody is, we can't leave any of us behind, right? We can't be ableist. We can't. Because one thing Covid teaches us is that this, our country does not care about you and our country does not care about disabled people. And so if you catch COVID or any other thing, guess what? You have a high chance of joining the disabled community, right? And now you gonna really find out how hard it is and how America doesn't care about you, right? So when they're saying things like that, like, you're right, I was also of the same thing. Like, well, what happened to these things and what happened to this? And it is kind of a you I think that I have, I sometimes struggle from symptoms of visions of grandeur when I'm thinking that. Because I think you got to feel this, too. You know, I feel like. You feel like you're Frederick Joseph in a time that all this is happening with bearing witness, but also using your platform to speak up and doing things. I've been doing similar things, obviously. Tameka Mallory. I mean, there's just. There's a lot of us. Linda Sowers. There's so many of us doing so much work, and sometimes it feels like or seems like it's not enough, especially when the algorithm is working harder than Krishna. Listen, it's working harder than the devil is working harder to keep us all spinning in circles. Do you? I have visions of grandeur, of thinking now is the time. Like, all I see. All I kind of see is now's the time to flip the table. Because what, we're up against a wall. They're basically telling us to choose between a convicted felon and a war criminal, right? [00:32:48] Speaker C: No, that's. [00:32:49] Speaker B: Not to mention. And listen, I hate the people out here throwing words willy nilly, because let me tell you something. First of all, some of y'all better speak to me nice. I'm a black trans woman who has come from the margins, poverty, and have been given very few options that this white supremacist country has given me. And there was a time in my life where I thought joining the military would help, would do something. I've never been to war. I was scared out of the military before I even was deployed into anything. But I've been trained. I was willing and able to fight for the rights of this country. [00:33:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:33:39] Speaker B: So one thing, what you would not do is disrespect me. Number one, I am not a war criminal, number one. Number two, for black and brown folks who did not create this system. I hate that. You know what I heard somebody on social media talking about? You know, well, if you want to talk about selling your body. [00:34:02] Speaker C: Mm hmm. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Choose how my people, you know, sign up, basically, to sell their. To give their body to the government and giving. Yeah. Because they now have control over where to put your body. Front line, back of the line, do whatever. So, but, so, so I understand the nuances of trying to make it in this country, trying to go after the pursuit of happiness, trying to believe that you're an American who has certain inalienable rights. But there is no way that you can tell me, as someone who has looked up to everybody else and white people who've been running this country and doing things, and now we have an Internet. We have the UN, we have an international court of justice. [00:34:53] Speaker C: Right? [00:34:54] Speaker B: And now our president is trying to tell us that they don't hold any validity. [00:35:00] Speaker C: Right, right. The things that we, as we led to have the invention of, like that was us. That was the United States. The United States was the founding of the UN. Like we were behind that, the international criminal court, you know, so on and so forth. I mean, you know, to the point that you made about us trying to do the work. And I want to call somebody, I said to someone earlier how exhausted I am because talk about the reality of it is, is that the work? Sure. We, we've been called to it. We do it. [00:35:36] Speaker B: But I didn't ask for this. [00:35:38] Speaker C: I was gonna say, but, but here's the thing, though. You're an actress. You're an actress. That's, that is, that is, that is what you, that is, that is who, what, that is your passion. And not only you an actress, you're a hell of an actress. Right? [00:35:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:53] Speaker C: And so when you're talking about, but. [00:35:58] Speaker B: I gotta do this, not, I got a baby. [00:35:59] Speaker C: This is what I'm saying. Like, I'm like, I've got a hat or two, right? Cuz, cuz that's what, that's what we are called to do, right? People be like, oh, I'm like, if you read my work, like I'm a, I'm an author, I'm a poet, so on and so forth. Like, I wanna, like, my novels that are coming out next year and the year after that are about love, but I gotta also talk about fighting for our rights in them. Maybe I, maybe I just want to write brown sugar. You know what I mean? Maybe, maybe. But you know what? When we call to the work, we don't get. I don't think we talk enough about the work is not who we are. And that's the hard part. Especially when those of us who do certain things, again, using you as it, as an, as an example, as an actress, you see up, you could have. And that's the honest truth. You could have other things, right? You could have other things and more things if you weren't trying to save the world. And we don't have that conversation enough that saving the world, especially when you're on the margins, means that they're not going to give you the things that they already don't want to give you in the first place. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Listen, that's so much of a word, because. Yes. And what's even mind boggling to me is when people who probably should know that and know better with that are pulling at me as if I do have more. And the things, and I can't even tell you the reason I built trans tech. We celebrated our ten year anniversary this June, actually, and I spent my entire time as that. I was the executive director, not taking a salary and doing the work. But what happened was a lot of that time I was applying for grants and doing different things. But because of how I make things look, because of how much work I put into things, I constantly got someone else got another organization, or someone else always got chosen because they thought, oh, she's Angelica Ross, right? [00:38:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:25] Speaker B: What does that mean? When I'm a black trans woman who is not getting Emma Roberts check, right? I'm not getting they same payrol per episode. I'm not even getting the same pay per episode as some of the damn other black people on my own damn show. You understand? So, like. So it's not that. And not only is it not that, but what people. What. The biggest thing that I've seen with folks either I would. The word I can only use best is coveting, like coveting my life or what I, you know, whatever is, is that a lot of times folks don't understand is like, many times what I was offered was crumbs or offered something I needed to make look better, right? Or. And I made it look better and I made it work for me. Or, you know, the fact that I'm independent with certain things, like, it's because I'm a techie and I know how to run a camera and put up some lights. And I know a thing or two about editing, you know, so. But I'm willing to unplug from the system, right. In order to go without, in order to not have their win, because I could. And the thing that drives me bonkers sometimes with celebrity is that sometimes we get a little bit too full of ourselves, 100%. And we believe that we're just such great artists that we have to block out everything, right? To just deliver the art so that it can be great. And don't get me wrong, I get that. Right. That's, of course, right. We all want that as artists, to be able to do that. But to know that every day, every moment is a choice, right? And so to know that I could have made a different choice, right? But I'm not going to. And if I had the chance to make it again, I'd make the same choices. [00:40:36] Speaker C: Everything you're saying is that anybody with any common sense can see it, right? Like you can see there's people who I know, there's people that we know where we have similar, you know, and even with what's happening in GAsa, right? [00:40:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:54] Speaker C: I've been like, I'm heartbroken. I'm like, oh, man, they gave you a few things, and now you are, man, not you. You know, it was like, for certain people, it's like, oh, it's all good to make money in 2020, right? Oh, I'm black. I'm black. Or to make money in June. Oh, I'm, you know, I'm queer, I'm queer. I'm trans. I'm trans, so and so forth, right? And then you see pictures of babies with no head, so on and so forth, and know who's doing it. But you don't want to lose the check. You know what I mean? You don't want, you don't want to lose it. A sedan, the third. And I'm like, I just can never be a slave to capitalism in that way, right? I just couldn't. Because then what's the point, right? Like I said, and like you were just saying, the reality of it is, is that for the most part, and obviously as a black trans woman, there's no group more marginalized in the world than the black trans women. We know that. So when we're talking about crumbs, obviously there are some black trans women who were doing very well for themselves. But over overall, when you look at demographic, if you want to look at where the most marginalized people are, here you go. And so when we're talking about crumbs, we have to understand that, that crumbs means crumbs at times, right? Like, and what does that mean for society to have any expectation of anybody from that community other than how can I support you, right? Because everybody else, they are the people. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Who will give the most, who will show up at the front lines for Black Lives Matter protests while being called a man, while being disrespected. [00:42:33] Speaker C: Exactly. And that's the thing that breaks my heart about. We could carry that message. Some of us, some of us even more than others right now, could be carrying that message. And again, I've watched as people like, I've, I think, since, since years ago when we, when we were first able to connect, years and years back, you. You went off and did wonderful things. We've had good careers, right? Like, I went over, had best selling books and this, that we've had good careers. And I respect you and love you because I sometimes feel alone. I'm like, man, am I the only person still out here on the same stuff we was on eight years ago? Where are we? [00:43:26] Speaker B: Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. One thing that we do here and one thing that I there, okay? So thank goodness that I have also found this book. And I, you know, obviously, I'm sure you've let this radicalize you. Like, so I, you know, I've, obviously we've said this, we've said this saying, you know, let this radicalize you. So I get the book and, you know, and I see myself in the critique of things in the sense that I'm with you, in a sense that I'm like, I know damn well there were more people to my left. I know damn where. There were more people to my right that were saying the same things. And as the, as privilege picked them off one by one and God gave them a mortgage or a job or a part or, you know, a position, a late, a title or whatever, um, you started to see people move differently, right? And even that in of itself is the indicator. And, you know, I want to say this while being mindful of not trying to sound or like better than anyone or anything like that, but what that is is us having to have some sort of space, grace, compassion, or whatever for people who are riddled with, with fear. That's what renders someone unable to move when there is a threat is fear. Where do I go? [00:45:23] Speaker C: Right? [00:45:24] Speaker B: Where? And not having not being practiced enough to know that they can go to community, right? Especially if you're willing to be intersectional, if you're willing to be progressive, if you're willing to be, have space for my trans humanity as well as your, you know, humanity, then you can go and find strength, right? Because we built numbers over time. But what has happened is for some reason I thought as the founder of Transtech, as a person who was trying to hand over my blueprint of saying, hey, they don't need to know what you look like or sound like for you to make some money online and do something. You don't gotta show your face. If you know code and if you know editing, if you know this, that. [00:46:16] Speaker A: And the third, right. [00:46:18] Speaker B: So when 2020 and the pandemic came and things shut down and all these corporations who were telling us and white men were telling us what couldn't be done all of a sudden was being done, we're working from home and remotely and not going to the office and doing things differently, right? People are learning to make different streams of income, lift different things or whatever. So I'm thinking, this is the moment in history where we learn to be agile, right. So that we're not dependent on the system. [00:46:48] Speaker C: Right. [00:46:49] Speaker B: And then something happened where folks got, I think, too scared. The pandemic went on too long, and people weren't figuring it out in a way where, you know, again, it's not that we, you know, it's not to blame us, but again, it is at this point where we, as a people, I'm not all that special. You not all that special. Yes, we are. But you know, what I mean is that we are going beyond our fear to move. [00:47:15] Speaker C: Right. But the thing is, that's a word. The thing is, the thing you afraid of is going to find you either way. Right. The thing you afraid of is coming. The issue is when you look to your left and you look to your right and the people who used to be there going, they're going to be running back. Right. And the ways in which we're going to have to get things together without time and strategy is exactly what the things you're afraid of want. Right. So it's, so it's like, even, like people have asked me, oh, do you think Trump's going to win? I'll be honest with you. Yeah, I do. I think that Donald Trump is going to probably be the president of the United States once again. And if he isn't, I think even if he is not, he's already running as a convicted felon, a twice impeached person and an insurrectionist and a person who says that Joe Biden is an illegitimate president anyway. How are you not preparing for what will likely be violence if he doesn't win either way? [00:48:23] Speaker B: Okay, pause. Because that's where I'm at. Because, hold on. Why is you trying to fear monger me into voting for Biden? Because of project 2025, when I'd have been known regardless of who win, right? 2020 five's coming. [00:48:45] Speaker C: 2025 is here. This is the thing. When we really look at what's happening right now, right? We look at what's happening. I just saw a headline today. They said that Dei or something like that is banned in Alabama schools. Like fully. I saw that today. Right? Dei don't mean nothing, but, but disabled folks, black folks, brown folks, trans folks, queer folks, you know, I mean, and. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Women, and they're about to go after everything. Race, ability based, all of that. [00:49:19] Speaker C: Right? But they already have, along with the fact that a whole genocide is happening, along with the fact that the more there are more police in 2024 than there was in 2020 before George Floyd was murdered. Right? The budgets have gone up. There's a cop city, obviously, coming up in Georgia. They just announced the cop city. I was. They just announced a cop city in Queens. They just announced a cop city in Westchester county. What we're talking about. You saw my old project 2025. What about project 2024? Right? [00:49:50] Speaker B: Not to mention, not to mention. Not to mention. Let's imagine that this was election year. Wait, it is. But what I mean, what I mean is. [00:50:03] Speaker C: I know what you're saying. [00:50:04] Speaker B: Imagine that Biden, excuse me. Imagine Biden was not the incumbent, right? And this is what we are. This is what we're looking at. This is our world. Do you know what lies they would be selling us 100% about what you would do about this moment, right? But you are in office now. And what you are showing me, right, at least me right now, because I'm conf. One thing I am so confused about is how is it that I should be so scared about what Trump is going to do with the presidency? When you're in the presidency right now and ain't nobody scared of you but black and brown people and immigrants. [00:50:54] Speaker C: Right? I forget, see, I forgot all about the fact that he just did the executive order yesterday or the day before that Trump had been trying to do for years the things that the man, you told him, oh, well, it'll be worse on the truck. I'm seeing the exact same things happening. And so, with that being said, I'm not, honestly, as people who are public figures, I'm not advocating for either of them, because I refuse to advocate for white supremacy. Right? And so. But what I am advocating for is people preparing themselves, because again, if Trump loses, or, excuse me, if Trump wins, all hell's gonna lose. [00:51:33] Speaker B: All hells we're gonna break. [00:51:33] Speaker C: All hell's gonna break loose. If Trump loses, the hell that's going on will continue to break loose and everybody will pretend that it's not happening until you're dead. [00:51:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:45] Speaker C: Oh, I watched the police. Here, here in New York City, I watched the police. Little girl, little, um, little, um, uh, hispanic girl selling some stuff at a park, you know, I mean, it's hot outside. She's trying to make some money for the family. She's, I think they'd said online she was twelve. [00:52:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:05] Speaker C: Did you see this video? [00:52:06] Speaker B: I saw, I didn't see the video. I heard about like a white woman called a cops on her or something like that. [00:52:11] Speaker C: Yes. And then the police came, this little, little twelve year old hispanic girl, knocked all the stuff that she was carrying little, you know, little gum and little trinkets, trying to make money for her family, knocked them on the, on the ground in the park and started arresting her, cuffing her. She's twelve. And they, they grabbing her up like she's a grown woman because from, from the time we're five years old, all of us who are not white are grown, you know, and so, but they grabbing her up. And I was looking, I'm like, if this would have happened under Trump or even, because the mayor is also a supposed Democrat, right. If this would have happened under another mayor, republican mayor, so and so forth, what is all of this doing for me? Because all I'm seeing is the same things that, like, I mean, shit, excuse my language. I don't know if y'all be curious. Okay. You know, if George Floyd would have been murdered, if Breonna Taylor would have been murdered, if Ahmaud Arbery would have been murdered right now under Joe Biden, nothing that happened in 2020 would have happened. [00:53:34] Speaker B: You know, I, I just, so, okay, so let me, okay, so let me ask you this. Do you remember when we all watched, I think, on social media as like, Egypt, like, flipped a table in their country? I think there was an election or something that had. Yes, yes, it was Arab Spring. [00:53:59] Speaker C: Yep. [00:53:59] Speaker B: When I tell you, I was so inspired. And I think you are right about, you know, people need to be prepared because, like, I think that the messaging is one. We need to vote down ballot in the sense of, okay, other than the presidency, there are other things that we can be voting for. And just like, you know, a Republican in the presidency with an all Democrat, you know, we need to make it hard for, you know, we need to make it hard for them to roll back our rights. So we have to try, or I have to do what we can. And voting is one of those things. But when it comes to the presidency, I still believe there's, I don't know exactly what it is, but I still believe there's a card, there's a wild card on the table for us. And for me, that wild card is we the people. There's a, there's some sort of inherent power in that foundation that it was supposed to have been. We don't have an x, we don't have an escape button, we don't have a stop, we don't have an eject, we don't have a, and we the people that are paying taxes and don't have the resources that we need, potholes, infrastructures going down, more police are getting built and our kids don't have education and don't have lunch and things like that or whatever. The mortality rate for black women is at an all time high. You know, we have all these different things. There's got to be, I believe there's a wild card like Egypt pulled, like. And again, what I believe is that they are trying to scare us into silence by shutting down protesting in several states, in a couple states, by unleashing military force police into against peaceful protests. Again, I was college. I don't have kids. And I just keep thinking to myself, if I sent my child off to college, I would be up at the school in rollers and a bathrobe. [00:56:10] Speaker C: These are Angelica, these are white kids. When I saw, I saw a picture from and a white kid, this is how I know that we're down bad. I saw a picture of a black woman cop beating up a white kid protesting at the encampment. I said, what the hell? [00:56:33] Speaker B: I said, what? [00:56:35] Speaker C: What? [00:56:38] Speaker B: It's the tethered. It's like, it's like, I don't know, upside down. Where? I don't know. But, oh, shoot. Did my camera. Camera went out again. Okay, you know what I got to do, because I know we've been going, okay, so when I get this back on, we're going. We're going to start to wrap up because I know we've been going. I'm at the edit this anyway. [00:56:54] Speaker A: Okay, hold on. [00:56:55] Speaker B: Give me 1 second. I'm unplug my mic and I won't, I mean, my headphones, I won't hear you for a second. [00:57:33] Speaker A: And this has 54%, so we definitely. [00:57:36] Speaker B: Got plenty of room there. There we go. [00:57:44] Speaker C: Mm hmm. Oh, candy. [00:58:01] Speaker B: There you go. Can you hear me? [00:58:02] Speaker C: Yep. [00:58:04] Speaker B: This is how I know that you and I have been way overdue for catch up, because we could. There's so much that we can talk about and catch up on because again, being in this movement, and this is what I'll say, too, as well. You know, let's, let's, let's, let's keep in touch. Let's actually, let's work, you know, because you and I have been, you know, doing this sort of work. But I will say this, like, I want you to talk about this, and this is, this. Don't, don't, don't, don't. Don't be mad at me. I wanted to talk. I want to talk about this because do you know this man named Emmanuel? [00:58:48] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Achoe. [00:58:51] Speaker B: Yes. So wait, okay, so listen, so listen. So the thing was, is like, I remember when he first had a little show and Oprah was putting them on the platform and he was talking to white people, my immediate reaction was no, because it was just no. It was. To give those type of white people that kind of platform where they have every resource to not be that ignorant was a lot of things for me. And then to have a black man again and doing that work. [00:59:24] Speaker C: Yep. [00:59:25] Speaker B: But talk to me about. Because you've been doing some of that work. [00:59:33] Speaker C: No, no, no, I haven't. [00:59:34] Speaker B: No, wait, wait, wait. No, I'm not saying. [00:59:36] Speaker A: No, wait. [00:59:37] Speaker B: I'm not saying. Wait. Okay, so I'm not saying that you have, but what I'm saying is. So what I'm saying is, I think that was the perception, yes. With the book, your black friend. [00:59:48] Speaker C: The black friend. [00:59:49] Speaker B: But so what is the where's the talk to me talk? [00:59:53] Speaker C: So here's. So here's the. So Emmanuel Acho Lord. So one. The book itself, the title of the book is a parody. Because when a person opens up the book, I'm just getting on white people. [01:00:09] Speaker B: Right? [01:00:10] Speaker C: So the second you open up the book, it is not just me. I brought in a lot of people. I'm unpacking the through line from Susan B. Anthony to white feminist, all sorts of things. The issue of white feminine, all sorts of different things. Unpacking, talking about just, you know, I have a white people ban the book because the reason why Emmanuel Osho's book is not banned in mind is because white people opened it up. Like, whoa, wait a minute. I'm like, oh, all white people are racist. There's just absolutely no way that every white person is not racist in a racist society where everybody's been taught by the society. And so, again, so it's not say, but annual achille actually just made it. I gotta say. I'm gonna text you. This ticks. I. Have you got the same number? I'm not sure. [01:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll make sure you have the same number. Yes. [01:01:00] Speaker C: But I made a TikTok a few months ago about him because he has another book, like uncomfortable conversations with a Zionist or something like that now. And I was talking about. Here's a funny story for you. Now, his book came out around the same time as mine, and so people conflated what he was doing with what I was doing per. [01:01:20] Speaker B: I was one of them. I'm telling you, I was one of people. Because at that point, I was like, I didn't even want. I was just like, you know what? I'm gonna let you go ahead, do that. I'm gonna be over here. [01:01:28] Speaker C: No, per the point that you just made a complete conflation. Right? Complete and utter conflation. If. Again, if you. If you. The book has a chat, my book has a chapter in it that's called Fubu for us, by us. And I'm just telling white people, some things ain't for you. Whereas he's doing stuff like, some of us want to be cops. I say in the book, every cop is bad. Ain't no such thing as a good cop, right? Like, and so I'm whatever. So. But I wanted people. The idea was what would happen? And mind you, he also wrote his in 2020. I wrote mine in 2018. And so I was just, wait, he's a bigger name. So his whatever. But my idea was like, oh, everybody, like, I have a black friend who said I could do this, and Anna third. So I was like, oh, what happens if you have a black friend who's like, nah, I'm gonna get you all together. You know what I mean? And so when his book came. When his book came out, they conflated the two. And it hurt me in my book badly because people had this other expectation and funny story. [01:02:32] Speaker B: What would be the angle? What would be the angle for your. For, so say, for instance, okay, you got a book out there now. And let's say, okay, we your black people. We your. What would be the angle for us to want to support the book? Meaning, like, so what would be the. What would be the narrative? Like, I get the pitch to the white people that your black friend. What would be. How would we, like, what would be the thing for black people to be like, yes, brother, do that. [01:03:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, so it's funny. A lot of black people have read the book and be like, oh, my God. I haven't felt. I haven't ever felt so seen reading a book because I'm unpacking the things that happen to us that some of us don't even in certain spaces get. Not everybody is in the spaces that you and I are in. A lot of these conversations, like, over having these on a regular basis with people. Some people, like, you know, even reading, like, an essay in which I'm talking about being black in the corporate world and having to, like, pretend that I don't do certain things on the weekend and lie to my white co workers. And this. And third people are like, oh, my God. White people are like, I never thought of this. Black people have been like, yo, thank you for saying this. You know what I mean? And so that's been the thing. A lot of black people, like, I really didn't know I was the. I wasn't the only one doing certain things because I'm not in activist spaces. I'm not in whatever spaces, right? I. So there's, so there's that. [01:03:57] Speaker B: Where's the line, though, with inside outside conversation? So I get what you're saying, too, because I'm wondering to myself, like, you know, it would be great for us to be able to have space where we can talk about and exchange those experiences. But sometimes now, where, especially with social media, with everything else, some of these in, you know, house conversations we're having in front of everybody. [01:04:22] Speaker C: Right, right. I mean, I think that's, that's the thing that's in that chapter. Funny enough, because I interviewed for that chapter, Terrell Alvin McCraney. And so in that chapter, what I use is myself to say, I explained to white people by using myself as an example, that everything that's black or brown, right? Like, just because we overhear to San Anthur turn up whatever song we turn up to, that ain't necessarily for you, right? In the same way that moonlight, as the example I use in the book, when I interviewed Terrell Moonlight, I learned a lot and felt moonlight deeply, but it wasn't for me, it was for him. Whatever he needed for him in his community. Shit, I don't even know if the movie was for queer people, not from Florida, you know? You know, I mean, it was that he's like, this is my story. I'm doing this because it's cathartic for me. This is for communities that uplifted, built me, so on and so forth. This is for my queer babies down in Miami. You know what I mean? And that's just, that's not me. And so I use that as an example. So I just feel like people conflated the title, but to the point of Emmanuel Acho, my. When our books got placed up against each other, not just amongst, you know, the community, but even in, like, sales, right? [01:05:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:05:43] Speaker C: And so when people started actually reading the books, people were like, oh, nah, this nigga Fred, I'm gonna put this shit down. Nah, nah, nah. Like, why? People like, nah, nah, nah, this ain't it. Cuz he was having Oprah backed conversations with the cops and with this. And then they're given like, oh, we don't really want to. Black people don't hate police. We just want. Nah. And so what ended up happening? There was a Lord Costco had ordered thousands of copies of his book and my book. And when Biden won, they had, they said, look, the national conversation around race has changed, and we feel as if your book is a bit too divisive versus his book. They had 55,000 copies of my book around the country in stores. They returned them all. So for those who don't know, listening to this, publishing is a consignment business. Just because you see something in the store doesn't mean that that thing in the store can't be returned. [01:06:49] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:06:51] Speaker C: I had to, and I still haven't done it. I had to make up 55,000 copies being returned of that book while they then took the offset and bought more of his book because his book made white people feel comfortable and my book made white people feel uncomfortable. And so realistically, I've had, I don't have an issue with him if his book, let's say, was better or something like that. I have an issue because you're taking up space where we need to be having real conversations, doing harm. [01:07:18] Speaker A: So now. [01:07:21] Speaker B: Now that I think about it, I don't think, I don't think it's too late. I don't think it's too late. I think that one thing I love about something like your book and things that are so evergreen, the conversation is still going, obviously, but also there's context between what was happening in 2020 and now to the George Floyd and performative activism of it all. You know, I think there's, I think there actually is an opportunity for us. I think we can rebrand this a little bit, like, like, to be honest, because I think that there was a, because I'm a part of that group that was in the missed opportunity of this conversation of the community, of being the black friend. And I think that what Emmanuel's book did and what I did not like about the show he had with Oprah is how much, how much space it gave white people and their problematicness right. Versus how much space should be given right to black and brown people and the reality of our experiences. And so I think your book and all the things you talked about and wrote it that you've been talking about here has an ability. I mean, damn. I mean, I know you're doing other stuff or whatever, but damn, that's a podcast, you know, the black friend and talking to other black people who have been the black. I mean, I'm just saying. It's just that. But I'm just saying, like, there is something there in which I think we're all, some of us missed the point on, on what you were doing and trying to do. [01:08:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's, for me, it's a wrap for that for a few reasons. So in that book, it features one white person. Every other chapter features nothing but black and brown people. And the one white person I features specifically because she's an educator on dismantling white supremacy whose grandfather was a Klan member. So when I'm saying I'm getting into the conversations in that book, I'm getting to the conversations. But because people, you know, realistically didn't open it up and see what it was actually about and didn't, I mean, you had Jacqueline Woodson, who's a prolific author, along with many other people who did open up the book, blurb the book, say, like, y'all need to get it. And people were like, nah. [01:09:40] Speaker B: That title was wearing me. [01:09:41] Speaker C: It was wearing, I hear you, but now. But I feel like the other thing I was disappointed about at that time was people didn't give me the credit for who I had been the whole time. Right. So, so it's like, so I'm like, hey, if you've seen why, you know, you've seen nothing else of me, so why not at least give it a chapter to read it, right? There was chapters online. [01:10:01] Speaker B: You know what? I think it was the mix of two things happening at the same time. One, that title, two, a manual, and three, the environment of people getting picked off for speaking to white people. And so the perception of the conversation being towards white people and not towards us. [01:10:22] Speaker C: Right. [01:10:24] Speaker B: I, again, like, but, but literally, I think it was like just a little switch of seat because the way that I even see it, like, even just sitting here now is the same title. But in one ways, I'm seeing it focus completely focused on white people understanding. It's almost like I'm your black friend who's going to tell you where you didn't got messed up versus. [01:10:46] Speaker C: Right, exactly. [01:10:48] Speaker B: Let's have community as black people. How we've been the black friend who haven't actually been honest with these mofos when we've been around them. [01:10:54] Speaker C: Precisely. And so, I mean, at this point, I guess in two weeks from now, my fifth book comes out since then. [01:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:00] Speaker C: You know what I'm saying? [01:11:01] Speaker B: And so it's an accumulative conversation. [01:11:03] Speaker C: Right. And so I guess with that being said, you know, it was interesting. I just had to realize at some point, and this was just my sad truth, I was like, well, you know what? Even with the next book, patriarchy Blues, which was also another bestseller. [01:11:15] Speaker B: I got that one. [01:11:17] Speaker C: And people, you know, people were on some in that book. I'm talking about misogyny, misogynoir and all these. Everything's happening, and then the book after that. So I'm like, hey, this is a body of work. And people should hold me. People should hold me to the standard in which I've always carried myself. And so now, like, even with, you know, we alive, beloved, a myriad. [01:11:38] Speaker B: And that comes out June 18 18th. [01:11:42] Speaker C: Yeah, it was June 11 before we moved it to the day before Juneteenth. And so this book, it's a collection of poetry in this. I'm talking about the things I'd be talking about, you know, like, what is it? What does it look like for our. Our babies who are queer, who are trans, et cetera? I'm talking about all the things. So I'm like, people need to, like, engage with me around who I've demonstrated I am. You know what I'm saying? [01:12:07] Speaker B: You know what? Everything's a reflection. And what I love about, you know, this podcast, no opportunity wasted. My buddhist practice and the way that I practice it is so that, you know, I chant in a way so that I can see myself clearly, so that I don't take on any lies. And I. Other things that people try to put onto my life. But I also see my environment, my strength, my weaknesses, everything, you know, sort of clearly. I think that. Sorry, I just got. What were you just saying? [01:12:42] Speaker C: I was saying. [01:12:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, no, so I got it. So the. You know, the reflection for me in this moment is that I have had the experience of people not taking me on the body of my work. [01:13:05] Speaker C: Right, right. [01:13:07] Speaker B: I am controversial at times with some of the things that I say and do at times, you know, but once it all shakes out, people see I'm right where I'm supposed to be with my finger on the issue. [01:13:22] Speaker C: Right, right. [01:13:23] Speaker B: But sometimes people might question me or not support me until they get to the point of understanding what I'm doing. [01:13:31] Speaker C: Right. [01:13:32] Speaker B: And so what I know is, many times when I sometimes experience certain things, for me, I have done that to someone else. And so, for me, I know that, as I've admitted here, you know, me just hearing the black friend, I checked out, you know what I'm saying? And it wasn't even about you. [01:13:55] Speaker C: That's fine. [01:13:56] Speaker B: It was about the moment of, I am not trying to give my attention to white people in that kind of way. And so I had checked out. But I had not given you, in this moment, an opportunity to benefit of the doubt, you know, to say, where is he going with this? And let me check in, you know, but I apologize. [01:14:17] Speaker C: No, and there's no need to apologize. That's. That's actually just life. I think the other thing, to the point we said that, you know, black people are not deities. Earlier, is also the conversation that's in that book. I'm talking about defunding, and I'm talking about defund the police. But even more so, I'm talking about abolition work. Right. So another reason why that book is important is because not every black person is on the page of abolition. Right. [01:14:43] Speaker B: Right. [01:14:44] Speaker C: People that are title, you know, and that makes sense. That's fine. It is. [01:14:49] Speaker B: With a strong title. Is this. [01:14:50] Speaker C: It is. No, it is. But I think even. Even to that point, you just said, eventually, when people come around. I already know that at some point, people come around and they'll read it or they won't, so on and so forth. But it's no different to me than I was pro. I've been pro palestine my entire life. [01:15:10] Speaker B: I mean, you get around. Right? [01:15:11] Speaker C: Exactly. So, people. I had plenty of people who were like, oh, my God, we need to stand for Israel right now. I'm like a settler colonial state. Why? And so people is, you know, and people now, mind you, October 7, 8th, 9th, 10th. Fred, what's today? June 6. But now I see that the rhetoric has changed, but nobody's coming back to tell me you were right the whole time. You know what I mean? And that's fine. Cause it's not about being right. It's about doing the work. [01:15:40] Speaker B: So it's not about being right, but it is about the fact that what we experienced was a lack of community, a lack of support, a lack of understanding, a lack of range, people taking up space and helping to distract from the very thing, you know, so we. So there's a real energy, I think, that still can be accounted for, for sure. But, yes, I hear what you're saying. [01:16:07] Speaker C: Oh, for sure. Look, at the end of the day, again, I tell people all the time I'm accessible. Right. If people part of. To me, being a community with all of our varied identities and things like that, is like talking to people. Right? Like, so that's. If I. Like. That's why I said there's no need to have it for anybody to apologize to me. If anybody ever had to apologize for anything, it's just for not reaching out, you know? I mean, like, oh, hey, what's this about? Cause I would have sent you 14 copies. I'm like, hey, let everybody who got a problem with it read one. And, yeah, and I promise you, when you get through the book, you're like, I see what you did here. You know what I mean? And that would have been it. And so we know, for future reference, we still here. [01:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we still here. I really appreciate you for doing the work. Know that, you know, in this movement, we are all doing the best that we can. I see that you are out here doing the best that you can. Thank you for being fearless and not letting circumstances stop you from using your voice. Obviously, there's been an onslaught and effort to silence black voices. You've been firsthand experiencing that with your books being banned. But talk to me about. [01:17:16] Speaker A: When we. [01:17:17] Speaker B: Talk about no opportunity wasted. And as we. I'm gonna let you go after this, I promise. But what's the opportunity now? And meaning, as you see it for yourself and for our environment, what's the. [01:17:37] Speaker C: Opportunity for myself, I think is the same as for our environment. I think it's to get free. Right? I think that a lot of people might listen back on some of the things that you and I were saying, and they might. They might be stagnated in fear or feel as though we're not as hopeful. And I actually would completely disagree with that. [01:17:57] Speaker B: I think that some of the things. [01:17:59] Speaker C: That we were saying, actually, some of the more hopeful things that there are. Because the hopeful thing is the truth, right? Because the first step is always the truth. And once you have the truth, you can do something about that truth. And so for me, I think that this moment, when we're talking about elections, when we're talking about just the degradation of, of, you know, those of us in society trying to just stay alive, right? The opportunity that we have in front of us is freedom, right? Because all of us collectively, all of us individually, excuse me, are going through something, right? Whether you are black and cish head or whether you black and trans, are you black and poor or you. Or you, are you black and disabled, whatever. If you black, are you brown or whatever, we all going through something. And the funny thing is those somethings that we're going through are actually in front of us right now, in this moment. And we can all decide to be in community together and collectively do something about it, you know? And so that's what I see as the opportunity right now. Even this conversation, this conversation actually just gave me so much life because I think even you bringing up the book right. And I, to be honest with you, I'm so far removed from that book. I'm on my, I'm on my, I just finished my 7th. [01:19:17] Speaker B: You like, you like, I'm off that. You like j. I've been off that. [01:19:21] Speaker C: But that's, but that's, but that. No, but that's, but that's, but that's fine, though, because for me, I'm like, oh, this actually gave me a lot of life because I didn't know, I didn't know that my sister felt this way. So now we can go back and talk about it. And so the opportunity is to be on brand. Opportunity is always now, right? [01:19:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. That is amazing. You know, thank you. Again and again, like I said, I'm going to do better and being, because again, we've been having these conversations about allies. And again, I appreciate it, you know, the ways that, what you said, you know, you will step up for me. You know, I'm saying, like, if anybody. And in the same ways, you know, I really appreciate the ways that, because as a man, you have exhibited and demonstrated what I know I want to see more of. I want, just as I'm looking at everybody else, like, I'm so tired, I'm over here. And y'all continuously are uplifting the most toxic or negative, you know, examples and voices of things. But again, it's this thing that we all have to do. [01:20:24] Speaker C: Right. [01:20:25] Speaker B: So when we see all of these different voices, we all have to actually amplify the better choice. [01:20:31] Speaker C: Right, right. That's exactly it. And, and I'm just, I'm just so thankful for you because I do think I actually, I wrote something and I mentioned you in it. I got to send it to you. As a matter of fact, I just wrote. Yeah, yeah. I got, um. Oh, my, I got a pretty large substac platform, like 100,000 people. And I wrote something just yesterday about the, the importance of creating safe space. And I, and I mentioned you, like, in a, in a line, but anyway, nonetheless. [01:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:20:56] Speaker C: It's, it's an honor and a privilege to be given the opportunity to demonstrate that you can create safe space. You know what I mean? And I think that if we all understand that more. Right. Like, to me, you, like, you invited me here. I think you said you spoke to Francesca. Was that ramsey? [01:21:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:13] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love. [01:21:15] Speaker B: We all. Yeah. We all in the circle. [01:21:16] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so, but as a, as a man being here, as a black man, I'm woefully and acutely aware that a lot of the traumas of. Of the spaces I'm in come from people who look like me and like me, and it's that they exist in the same sort of bodies and things like that, right? [01:21:36] Speaker B: Yes. [01:21:36] Speaker C: And so I'm like, oh, yeah. If I get invited to spaces, I'm like, you talking about, oh, I'm sorry. You ain't got nothing be sorry to me about. You didn't read the book. I don't give a shit. I'm just happy to be here. You know what I mean? [01:21:47] Speaker B: But listen. But I got patriarchy blues, and I was definitely. Cuz, listen, anytime a man is talking about the things of patriarchy, I thought that was absolutely excellent. I thought, you know, just very, very profound. I cannot wait to read your book of poetry and just cannot wait to see what. Because the thing is, is that we will be free and when we retell these stories, because, you know, Hollywood. The thing that irritates me most about Hollywood is that I. People will do anything to get that award, whether that is co op to disabled person story or trans person story. [01:22:29] Speaker A: Or a hero story. [01:22:32] Speaker B: Like, meaning. Meaning, like, whether it is your James Baldwins or your, you know, whoever had been so radical at changing our culture. Some of my colleagues can only deign to possibly play a world changer like that, versus. And so me, I've seen some of them cosplay and steal phrases like speaking truth to power when their words have been written for them. So my thing is, is, like, I am an actor. Like you said before, I'm an actor. I love acting. But when we retell these narratives, you're going to be able to know that whether the cameras were on or off, that I was doing the work. [01:23:18] Speaker C: Right, right. Oh, I got. Yes, yes, yes. [01:23:25] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much, Frederick Joseph, for being in the. Now, where can folks keep up with you and everything that you're doing? [01:23:31] Speaker C: You can try to keep up. Me on social media, but. Right, exactly. Probably will never see me post anything, because I'm posting, but you ain't showing it. But I'm on social media. [01:23:41] Speaker B: Fred T. Joseph, you started coming back up for me. [01:23:45] Speaker C: Oh, really? [01:23:46] Speaker B: Yeah. That's why, like, you started coming back. [01:23:48] Speaker C: That's surprised. [01:23:49] Speaker B: I haven't seen yours content in a minute. [01:23:51] Speaker C: I'm sure. [01:23:52] Speaker B: I'm sure somebody's been saying that about me when I was commenting in Amanda Seal stuff, and they were like, oh, my God, I've been following you since post, but I ain't seen nothing. You and I know, Lord knows I'm posting like, multiple times a week. Funny. [01:24:03] Speaker C: The only thing I had saw was the thing with the woman who saw my earlier. And I said to this, I said the same things I remember. I went back and I started seeing all the stuff from just even from american hearts. I was like, I didn't see her post none of this. That's wild. [01:24:23] Speaker B: You talk about, like, what's wild is to have the insight and to have meta constantly gaslighting us. So I'm looking at my insights. [01:24:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:33] Speaker B: And they're trying to say, oh, you. You hit the smash hit achievement on your reels because it's been successful, but in the same breath, you're telling me it's not successful because. So if I, like, I had a reel that reached 300 something thousand people, but only 3% of those people were my followers. [01:24:53] Speaker C: Right. [01:24:54] Speaker B: So how is it not. How is it successful and not successful in the same. [01:25:00] Speaker C: It makes no sense. But, and this is a whole different conversation for a whole different. [01:25:04] Speaker B: They need to be sued in a huge way. I think that black people, we need to file a class action suit. It is layered because not to mention the white folks who have stole things from black people and creators off of tick tock and all the other things. But then to have the platforms themselves actually basically wipe us out with the algorithm. [01:25:27] Speaker C: Yep. [01:25:28] Speaker B: They need their asses sued. They need to be sued down to their socks. [01:25:33] Speaker C: You're not, you're not lying. But ain't none. Ain't nobody gonna do it. [01:25:38] Speaker A: Well, stay tuned. [01:25:39] Speaker C: Oh, all right. [01:25:40] Speaker B: Well, all I'm saying is stay tuned in the sense that. Listen, people don't understand. Listen, I wanted to act. I didn't want to have to do all this. But since we're here, I'm getting trained in cybersecurity because I found a trans tech. So a girl knows a thing or two about tech. So as I go into politics and start talking politics, we're going to talk about what we're really talking about because y'all want to buy TikTok, not to keep us safe. Because if we were having that conversation, we talk about meta, right? So when someone can get in there and really, because I already can speak the language of tech, but when I really can talk about protecting our country because I know things from cybersecurity now you're really not going to be able to handle me. Now you really going to ask her to get her up out of here, right? [01:26:28] Speaker C: Look, you know where, you know where to find me when I, if I got whatever I show up to, whatever I got you know where to find me. I do. [01:26:35] Speaker B: I'm looking for you. Thank you so much for joining me in the now. [01:26:38] Speaker A: Uh, we will be right back, y'all. [01:26:40] Speaker B: That, uh. [01:26:41] Speaker A: Wow, that conversation was great, and what a great experience it is. Actually, I definitely am going to do this more in the future in the sense that actually watching it back with you all and seeing your comments live. I see Jermaine was saying that just as someone who is disabled, you were loving this beautiful conversation and saying that it's hitting you in a powerful way and that you're grateful. Well, thank you so much, Jermaine, for watching and for listening. All right, and thank you again to Frederick Joseph. If you haven't gotten any of his books, just pick them all up. He's really brilliant. And I read the other works, and I am going to read the black friend as well because I felt really bad about that, as you can see in that interview. All right, so before we go, okay, because it's been a long episode already, but I do still have to drop a buddhist breadcrumb, and I want to dive deeper into a concept that I've been really reflecting on a lot lately and that has really fundamentally shaped the way that I live. And it's. In Buddhism, we call it ichinen sanzen, or the idea that infinite potential exists in every single moment. So imagine being able to transform your entire life just by transforming your thoughts or your perspective. Well, Nichiren Buddhism teaches that this is not only possible, it's actually happening all the time. So the questions you might be asking YOuRSElF is how, like, how is by strengthening the condition of your life? Now, you know, we. We were just talking in our buddhist. We have these weekly buddhist discussion meetings, or not weekly, I think they're monthly Buddhist discussion meetings. But I'm at some kind of Buddhist activity every week. And this week today, actually, we were talking about the mutual possessions of the ten worlds and strengthening our buddhahood. And what, you know, what this is saying is that, like, when we get to this level of BUddhahood, you know, just there's so much misconception around all of it. But Buddhahood exists in all of the ten worlds. [01:28:55] Speaker B: This. [01:28:56] Speaker A: When we say the mutual possession of the ten worlds and strengthening our BudDHAhOoD, what that looks like is being a buddha or having buddhahood does not mean that you won't experience hell, that you won't experience hunger, that you won't end up in a state of animality or anger. These are the lower realms of the ten worlds. And so, so, you know, and as you go up, the worlds are tranquility, heaven, the world of learning, the world of realization, the world of Bodhisattva, and the world of buddhahood. I'm reading out of Tina Turner's book, happiness becomes you. If you haven't read this book, I had the privilege of interviewing Tina Turner about this book for Glamour magazine. So you can google that. Interview me learning about Tina and Buddhism. Obviously, this is one of the strong things that influenced me in the beginning, but I want to break this down of the how. [01:30:01] Speaker B: So? [01:30:01] Speaker A: It's like, well, okay, so in the ten worlds. So it talks about the fact that just as we are, whether in the state of hell or that of a bodhisattva, of a Buddha, we can immediately bring forth our buddhahood at any time, in any situation. So no matter what's going on, just as we are, excuse me, we can call on that Buddha nature. And it says, that said, though, for ordinary people mired in doubt, divisiveness, and confusion pervading our world, Buddha hook can be the most challenging life condition to bring forth. So how we bring that Buddhahood forth, and how this has happened for me as well, is by courageously taking on problems and suffering for the sake of others. It strengthens the world of Buddhahood in our lives. So what it talks about is working to establish that state of Buddha as your baseline, like as your basic life tendency, it says, and I'm also reading out of Living Buddhism. This is our, our magazine that we study month to month. It's, this is the September issue. You can go to SGI dash usa.org to get more information or subscribe and get your own copies. But, you know, it says so, establishing Buddhahood as our basic life tendency. It says that our basic life tendency is the life state we tend to reside in due to our karma. That is because of the causes that we made in the past. For example, some people might be quickly drawn to feelings of despair, that's the world of hell, while others might always be trying to outdo those around them. The world of asuras or arrogance or anger. Yet from moment to moment, we also move from world to world in response to external and internal factors. So we strive to establish Buddhahood as our basic life tendency because it will help us lead a better life. When Buddhahood becomes the foundation of our lives, no matter the highs and lows we may experience, we can use everything to fuel our appreciation, hope, confidence, and joy. None of our experiences within those other nine worlds are ever wasted and can be used to encourage others around us, the world of Buddhahood can also be described as a state of life where one willingly takes on even hellish suffering. This is the world of hell contained in the world of Buddhahood. It is characterized by empathy and hardships, deliberately taken on for the sake of happiness and welfare of others. And it arises from a sense of responsibility and compassion. Courageously taking on problems and suffering for the sake of others strengthens the world of Buddhism in our lives. So what it means to live, this doctrine of the mutual possessions is that when we live this way, we suffer what there is to suffer and we enjoy what there is to enjoy. We don't try to build these sand castles to experience good vibes only. We suffer consciously because we understand that this is a part of life and being human, we're going to go through these things. Just because you didn't found Buddhism or spirituality or whatever you didn't found, does that mean that you're not going to have problems and you're not going to experience hell right here on earth? There's so many people experiencing hell right now, right here on earth. So this week I want you to understand that even in the midst of your hunger, of wanting more for yourself right now, even in being in a world surrounded by all suffering and hell, that these circumstances actually can strengthen your buddhahood, that higher self. I'm speaking from experience. Listen, I come from Hoenn on the streets. I come from. I've had a lot of experiences, you know, and what I can say is that those experiences have made me rich. They have given me a sense of value that no one can take away. It has given me the ability to have compassion for other people who are still in those circumstances that I might not no longer be in. And when I show up as a Buddha, when you show up anyway, as your best self, not someone who is lowering themselves down to other people's lower frequency of responding to things. But when you arrive at every situation with the best possible life condition you can, that's when you can show someone else the portal out of hell, the portal out of a state of hunger or animality, of anger, by just being a reflection of something different. A reflection, and I say a reflection, because what the mutual possession of the ten worlds says is that inside the world of hell is still buddhahood, and inside buddhahood is still the world of hell. So if I can stand here as a reflection to you to tell you that I experience hell, I'm probably just stepping out of my own personal hell. To be honest, this year has been incredibly difficult. But if I can stand here and reflect to you the possibilities of vibrating higher, of finding my way out of that situation in a way that the winds will blow, but they will not knock me down. They won't knock me over like I am standing firm where I'm at. I'm standing firm with humanity, with human rights, and not just LGBTQ people, not just trans people, not just black people. I'm talking about Palestine people. I'm talking about jewish people. I'm talking about the people in the Congo and Sudan of Tigray, the haitian folks. I'm talking about every single human being around this world deserves to live with dignity and respect. Please, y'all, don't waste a single opportunity. I don't care what the circumstances are. Try to bring your best self so that you can light the way for someone else to find their way to higher ground. No opportunity wasted. We'll talk to you all next week.