Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome back to now. No opportunity wasted. I'm your host, Angelica Ross. Now, today's episode is giving ASMR because I'm in a hotel in New York and the walls are pretty thin. And I figure if I could hear them going at it in the next room, they can probably hear me, too. So I'm gonna keep it cute. I'm in New York City for a week of performing Cecilia Gentilli's red ink at the rattlesnake Theater. And I've been in rehearsals for the past couple days. So I have today Monday off, and my performances begin tomorrow, Tuesday, August 6 through Saturday, August 11 at 07:00 p.m. sharp. So for tickets, you can visit btb nyc.com redh ink. Okay, so let's set the tone for today with a little buddhist word for the day for my mentor, daisaku ikeda. He says, quote, when we shed light and praise the behind the scene efforts of others, it becomes a tremendous source of encouragement and inspiration. End quote. And I'll tell you, being on television sets, there are so, so many faces and names that you will never know that make our favorite shows look and sound as good as they do. And, you know, they might not ever get the public recognition or the accolades. And for over a decade, I'm telling you, I've been tinkering around with lights and cameras and music production, recording software, and I have spent countless hours learning all of these skills and then putting those skills to work in my own projects. So, listen, I know firsthand about a lot of the various work that goes into a production, and I have a respect for it all. Even when I'm speaking at conferences and galas, I continue to always thank the wait staff and the people working behind the scenes, running logistics. If I run across them, I make sure to thank them because I know that it was the efforts of a whole team that made things a success. So I really love that word. And I want us to find an opportunity this week to recognize somebody behind the scenes. All right, so we're going to go right ahead and get right on into my conversation with matchmaker extraordinaire Shay Primus of upper echelon matchmaking. Baby, if you don't have a few bobby pins in, prepare to have your wig all the way snatched from my conversation with Shay. We talk about dating. We talk about trans attracted men. We talk about dating someone with HIV. We talk about dating women. Baby, we cover a lot of ground. Take a listen.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: All right, well, welcome back to now. And this is actually a special moment, because you are our very first in studio guest. I've been doing. You know, I did. Dawn Richard was our first guest ever, and it was in person in Los Angeles at, like, the studio space that I had. But, you know, it's the beginning of the podcast. Still figuring things out, whatnot. So now that I've got everything in my recording studio slash filming studio, you're the first person to be. Bless us with your.
[00:03:35] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: I'm happy to be here.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: And I'm going to make sure that your microphone, I'm going to point it towards you a little bit more.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: You do your own editing and everything. Oh, my God.
Wow.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:59] Speaker C: Amazing girl.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: I do it all.
[00:04:01] Speaker C: I see.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: So, okay, so listen, I'm so glad to have you here because we're gonna talk a little bit about dating.
You have your own matchmaking service called the upper echelon matchmaking. Okay. Now and again, welcome to now, Shay Primus.
Yes. Owns her own matchmaking service that caters.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: To black folks here in Atlanta and nationwide. So we.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Nationwide.
[00:04:32] Speaker C: Nationwide. Absolutely.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: Now, what if. Is it, like, okay, so I know we cater into black folks. Do you ever deal with some interracial situation?
[00:04:41] Speaker C: I have had clients who said, I'm open to date outside my race, and then I definitely give them that, too, because I give them what they want.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: You give them what they want.
[00:04:49] Speaker C: Right, right. Period.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Right. But, you know, we love seeing black love. We love seeing.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: And I think, honestly, we'll get into this. But honestly, I think, really, the issue is not about race. It's about quality. You just haven't met the right kind of person, the right quality person. So if I can find you a top quality black person, you might be like, this the one, Shay. This the one.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Very true. Listen, but I've been of the mindset that, you know, I can only. I'm just so that, you know, where for my soul, it's a black person coming through this time, you know, because, again, centuries and centuries and centuries, you know, dating and attraction and what's considered, you know, attractive and all that has changed so much. But in this day and age, where there's so much coded language when it comes to going outside the house, working, doing things, and we're a team, and we've got to navigate this together, I need someone who kind of understands the playing field and doesn't just think, oh, well, maybe that's just somebody acting such and such and doesn't understand the systemic thing. So. But I do. If they're down for the cause.
[00:06:03] Speaker C: Cause there's some woke white people. I was about to say there's some people who are woke, and they understand and they're strong allies. And so for those people, see, I believe love is love. So although my business is. I'm black, of course. And of course, I promote black love, and most of my clients get it right. But love is love, and if we find the right person, and he's purple.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: You know what I'm saying?
[00:06:25] Speaker B: I love that. I love that.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: When is your birthday?
[00:06:28] Speaker B: I am a Sagittarius.
Leo rising.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Leo rising.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yes. So people think, yes, I'm a bit.
[00:06:36] Speaker C: Much, because, honestly, that's what I saw first, is, of course, the Leo. The rising always leads, right?
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: So you do come across like, I'm here. I'm every woman, and you probably said that while you were setting up everything.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: So you do come across like that. That's the Leo.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: Yes. So people see. Yes. See me as a Leo, but I'm a Sagittarius down.
[00:06:55] Speaker C: Are you?
[00:06:56] Speaker B: I am. And I don't know if that has caused problems in my dating trajectory. I wouldn't say problems, because, to me, I've learned that I'm not too much.
[00:07:08] Speaker C: To handle you, too much for the wrong person, for the wrong way, but it's not. You're gonna be just right for the right person.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think I might have. I might have found. I'm not gonna be telling you all my business right now, but, like, you know, I might have found the right person. I opened up my.
I consider myself queer. I just hadn't. I was just, you know, I definitely was open to it. I'm attracted to masculinity. And what I realized after some time was that.
Cause I was at a party once, and there was this girl that was very masculine or something. She had this masculine energy, and she said something and grabbed my waist, and I was like, oh. I was like, what happened? Like, why am I responding this way?
[00:07:51] Speaker C: Like, what you.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: I was like, oh.
I realized, you know, and especially as I kind of, like, decolonize what I want, because as a trans woman looking for love with men, typically, obviously straight men, that, um, I am. I've had my surgery, so there ain't. Which. If you're looking for something else, I ain't got it here.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: But you know what? That's a whole different. Now you talking about a whole different thing. Let's talk about.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Let's talk about it.
[00:08:19] Speaker C: Because from my experience, men want trans women, but they like trans women with penises. And I'm just being 100% no, because.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: They really telling me nothing. I don't know.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: They want the d. And I'm talking about the men that sleep with me and sleep with trans women, the men that they. Dipping and dabbing both.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Right. Let's be clear on that.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Um, and it's usually not for a relationship. It's.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: No, that's. And that is.
That was. That is the. That's the kicker right there, because it's an experience that I thought and is in many ways very unique to trans women.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: It's very unique.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: But you realize there's this also layer or just sector of women that men treat the same in the sense of they never see you as the one they want to be in a relationship or marry. You're the one they just want to get down with.
[00:09:28] Speaker C: They just want to get their rocks off.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Yeah. In my whole days, I felt like I was kind of a therapist because many times there were times when we didn't even have sex. It was a time where actually they just wanted someone that would talk to them and that they could not feel judged.
But they're not having these conversations with their wives.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: And so it's like, were they conflicted about what they were attracted to or what they were interested in?
[00:09:53] Speaker B: I think so. I think. I think.
I think that's it. Yeah, there was. I saw a lot of conflict. I saw a lot of conflict. And, you know, there were many times the questions they would ask is, does this make me gay?
And I'm like, well, sweetie, you're not.
[00:10:10] Speaker C: Straight all the way. Let's just cut that out.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Well, exactly. That's why I like the word queer.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: Right. Because you could call yourself what you want to call yourself, but you're not heterosexual.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:10:21] Speaker C: You're not straight.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. And people want to cling to that label because of the privileges that come.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: Along with it, but you're not.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:29] Speaker C: Let's just be honest. That's why I told my ex I was like, you're not, boo. He kept saying he was heterosexual. He was. This is his argument. If the trans women are women, then I'm heterosexual.
Okay, but most of the people you slept with are this type of woman.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Uh huh. Uh huh. Exactly.
[00:10:46] Speaker C: Let's talk about that.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:48] Speaker C: What is it?
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think that I get it. Because I get. I get it. I get what he's trying to say, because trans women are women. So I get what he's trying to say.
Regardless of if I have, like, I have had the surgery but I've been with men who have been able to recognize my womanhood before and after that were with me before and after.
But I think the attraction to the d specifically, that's what we have to talk about is what we need to talk about. And I think that that's at least queering up the situation because even, like.
[00:11:30] Speaker C: I told you with my particular dude, when we got ready to have sex, you got a pro with it. Like you should be. You 40 years old, you're supposed to know what to do. You a seasoned professional at this point, no 40 year old needs to be told how to eat it, right?
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: What you talking about?
[00:11:47] Speaker B: Well, but, you know, but you got these DJ Khaled's and you got these people out here who say that they will never.
[00:11:52] Speaker C: Then you. You too. We too grown for that. I'm so sorry. We too grown for that. If anybody, if any adulthood want to have oral sex, we're too grown for that.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: I feel sometimes a lot of men like to penetrate women, but I know that I feel like a lot of men don't like women.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. A lot of these podcast men. I hear it. I'm like, you don't like women?
[00:12:17] Speaker B: You don't like women.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: There's so much hate in what you're saying. You can't like us. You don't like us. You have bitterness against your mama because she neglected you or mistreated you, and you're taking it out on us. You like to f us.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:29] Speaker C: But that's it.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Yes. So I, you know, obviously you. Hopefully you can see that coming. Hopefully y'all can see that coming when, you know, when they're coming that they don't, they just want to f. They don't want anything else.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: Right. That's how you want.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Right. So there's a lot of similarities in our experiences, but in that experience specifically, that's why, for me, dating a man just didn't make sense to me. It didn't. You know, it got to a point where I'm, after you had the bottom.
[00:12:59] Speaker C: Surgery is when this shifted or.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Yes, I think it's after I had. Yes, I think it's after I had the bottom surgery. Now, my. Yeah, it definitely is after I had the bottom surgery. And so I think what shifted for me was that I'm a smart woman. I know always. I've always played a little bit, you know, with the guys of, you know, just dumbing down a little bit, you know, just like, I mean, not just being too much, not needing to leave you know, do it. Being too much. But again, realizing that I'm not too much for the right person. And also, one of the things I'm most attracted to is strength.
And I associated strength with masculinity for so long, that's deepen. And then when I, as a trans woman, have gone from being in the margins of the streets to being fired, being basically spat on by society and finding my way to where I'm respected, I'm contributing to society, I'm productive, I'm valuable. My life is valuable. So I found a way to navigate a very oppressive space. We know that this world is not built for trans people. Definitely built for black people, and I'm both.
But when I'm dating men and I get men telling me what they can and cannot do, which means. Meaning you got to understand, I can't. It's hard for me to date you openly because, you know, my job, or I might have to risk, you know, or, you know, my family or this or that or whatever it is, totally understand that. But if I, as a black trans person, can have figured it out in a way where I call the shots in my life, I need to be with someone else who feels that they have that power in their lives, even when it comes to capitalism, because I get it. If you're a rapper, artist CEO, and they find out you're dating a trans woman. But one thing I've been able to say is, if you cannot explain to someone why you're dating Angelica Ross, then we don't even need to be dating. And when I thought about that for myself, I'm actually. That goes for everybody. And not just an Angelica Ross for anybody, for any reason.
[00:15:22] Speaker C: If you cannot, you are ashamed of me, baby. Pass.
If you can't defend me, pass. Period.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: So talk to me about the beginning days of you building this business. Why?
Why did you decide to get into matchmaking?
[00:15:39] Speaker C: So I am one of those people. So I have a Gemini rising. So Gemini rises. Never meet a stranger. We're very personable, and I have a huge network, but I'm a Capricorn. So business minded. And it's like, how do I. How do I capitalize on the fact that I have such a huge network and I know all these people, and whenever I would have events, folks will be hooking up or getting me to hook them up. Shay, hook me up with that person over this person. So let me see. How do I monetize this? How do I create a business and do this? So I went and got certified as a matchmaker when I got certified as a relationship coach.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:16:13] Speaker C: Dating coach. And I started my business. Now, initially, it started with is middle class matchmaker.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:19] Speaker C: So.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Yes, that's what I.
[00:16:21] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: So why. Okay, so why would you start with middle class? Because I. I love that. I love that idea. But then you moved to upper echelon, so talk to me about the middle class beginning.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: So, in my mind, most people are middle class. Yeah, most of us are.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:37] Speaker C: But people don't like to identify as middle class. Everybody want to think they. More than they are, honey. Everybody.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: I don't know what it is they do. Yeah.
[00:16:45] Speaker C: So, honestly, I can tell you that I. In one year of having my business, I made more than I did in eight years of having middle class matchmakers.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:16:55] Speaker C: Because I attract high earning, very successful people who would not go on a dating site, who don't know how they're going to find love, but they're very successful, and they want to meet people who are at par with them. And my business is thriving as I've moved to upper echelon. So I don't know what it was, but that shift changed everything.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Well, you know, I mean, listen, I do believe that everybody, no matter where you are in life, deserves love, you know, and the opportunity for love. But I will say, as a woman walking through this world, you know, I think that dating and marriage, hopefully, it has. I've seen it evolve. Obviously, we went through this period of time, and I don't know if the statistics are still the same, but where people just were getting divorced. I mean, like, the divorce rate is just high.
But I think that what we've been seeing is a sort of.
We're dealing with the fact that times are changing.
Power dynamics are changing in relationships. Who's making the money and the breadwinner? The agreement between folks of understanding how we're playing into this, because I recognize patriarchy as a force in our culture, but I don't.
I'll say this, and I believe that patriarchy, as a system can be toxic and oppressive. But I am one who is of the mindset of an understanding between two people. It's a balance. I believe that everybody has a balance of masculinity and femininity in us.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: I love.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: You know, I've dated men who have had a green thumb or they cook or they are just sensitive in other ways. And I love when they're able to be in touch with those things. So we both have, you know, that mixture you have.
[00:18:53] Speaker C: Yin and yang.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Yes, the yang and yang. So I hate when I go on a tangent, and then I have to go too far, and I forget where I was going.
So we both had.
[00:19:08] Speaker C: You hate patriarchy.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:09] Speaker C: And you dated men who were in such. With their feminist side, and so I.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Don'T mind performing a little bit for my partner.
[00:19:20] Speaker C: In what way?
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Meaning, like, just as much as I'm attracted to masculinity and what that entails. Okay, well, performing for me a little bit, you know, like, change attire, you know, do, you know, do something that, you know, whatever. And that could be. But I also know, for me, whether it's wearing lingerie or whether it is cooking or whether it's doing certain things that masculine people or men recognize as what they want from a woman or feminine things, I see it as an agreement more, but I don't always feel like men see it that way as well. It's like, this is like an agreement we're coming to. It's more of an expectation of all women.
[00:20:04] Speaker C: I see what you're saying. Okay.
I feel like this is touchy because I think that as a woman, I have operated in my masculine space for a long time, even as a business owner, as a single mom, you know, you just got to do it. You just got to get done. The work has got to get done. Ain't no man here to do it, so I got to do it right.
When you get in a relationship with a masculine man, no. No conversation has to be had. I just kind of fall in place, like, now. I just. You know. You know, those men, they're just like, you just like, let me get up and cook for him.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: You need some clothes and fix this. Like, you just get into this.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: Well, but I think what you're pointing at, and again, I just.
You know, I try to be careful again, because, like you said, it is a touchy thing where you're talking about roles, but at the same time, I've been around a certain type of man that falls in place when he falls in place. Let me tell you something. One time, this man came to my house and used my bathroom. He was just like, 6465 something, and I had a tiny bathroom, and he was just moving around, and he comes out, he says, your bathroom? He's like, you need a shelf or something in your bathroom. And I could swear to you, about five minutes later, I heard Z.
And he was putting a shelf up in the bathroom. Do you know how much I wanted to fall in line?
[00:21:31] Speaker C: And you will, and that's what I'm saying. And it's really no conversation has to be had. Some people. Some people will try to say that there is no such as masculine and feminine. Right? Like some people will say that and maybe that's true for them.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Well, I think what it is is we attribute certain behaviors to masculine and feminine. And I think that is where it's incorrect because even as you say, like I. You know, the getting things done and doing this and doing that, we attribute that masculine to masculine versus something that can be maybe dominant or aggressive or something, but that women can have too.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: Well, the reason why I say that is because in my relationship, my man is very masculine. And I will tell you, I cut my brain off. He knows it. So as smart as I am, I literally have. I'm all but dissertation on my PhD. Yeah, I got two businesses. As smart as I am when we together do to do to do. Do I want to be girl? I don't have no thought in the world. Where do we park? I don't know. Where we going?
[00:22:28] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:22:28] Speaker C: My brain is cut off because I feel so safe with him.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: I don't have to think.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: I don't have to do. I can just be. And that's a. That's a. That's a feminine place. It's a receiving place.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:41] Speaker C: You do. And I'm gonna receive. And actually he likes that. He was like, you love it here, right? I was like, I love it here. I love not having to do anything.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Well, you know, that's funny because, you know, so I said I've opened my mind and I've started dating a woman and she's masculine of center. So just. Meaning she kind of just leans more into her masculine side.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: Is she masculine? Presenting?
[00:23:02] Speaker B: No, like in dress. Cuz she dressed like a boy, basically, but not fully. Like she doesn't wear makeup or anything like that, but like she has locks. You know, she. You know, I think I might be able to get her to wear makeup one day. I don't know, but it's not. I don't. I can tell it's not her thing.
[00:23:21] Speaker C: So are you a lesbian?
[00:23:22] Speaker B: I'm. No, I'm. I consider myself pansexual be. I'm so. I'm more attracted to the person and I.
But so with her, she's masculine. She has masculine energy though.
So she wants to do things like. And like she sees that I work by myself. I'm doing so much and just is like, what can I do? How can I help what you need me to do? Did you eat today. Can I send you some food?
And so I am getting into the space where, because I am someone, and I remember my brother once said to me, he was like, oh, you're not ready for a relationship. I was like, excuse me. And he was like, well, you're not. You're so busy, you work a lot, and you don't have any space for anyone else. And I did realize that a couple years ago that the reason why he was so correct is because I didn't have space for myself. I was barely making dinner time.
I was barely, you know, I'm falling asleep in ways that are disrespectful to my body clock and not taking care of myself. So I don't even have time to do anything with anyone else. So when I learned to kind of make that space, the next thing was like, letting someone do something for you, letting someone be there for you. Do you, have you seen? Because I know this is me. I have a hard time letting go. I've been controlling everything for so long. Taking. These lights are on, and they've been on. I've been single for a long time, and I've kept these lights on, so it's hard for me to.
And I want to. I want to open up. I want. This relationship is going great. Do you see other folks as your matchmaking that have been maybe in the driver's seat for so long and struggled to.
[00:25:23] Speaker C: One of the biggest things I have to coach women on. So most of my clients are, you know, successful black women, and I have to coach them because now you say, you want this man, you gotta make space for this man. You gotta let this man be a man.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:35] Speaker C: You can't be calling all the shots all the time, and it ain't gonna always go your way. And those conversations are tough because they're like, no, I only like this, and I only want to go here, and I want. Do you want to make all the plans right? No. Well, then you gonna have to let. If you want him to plan it right, you gonna have to let him make the plan, and you just go along. Well, baby, what should I wear? Let him tell you. Like, so that is a whole exercise in and of itself, because so many people say they want this, but a man's gonna be a man. If you want a real man, he gonna be a real man. You have to. You gonna have to back up.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:26:05] Speaker C: You can't call all the shots all the time now.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Okay, so what is. So let's talk about a real man for a second, because. What does that mean? Because. So meaning, like, because I get it. I know exactly what you mean. And.
But what?
Where's that space?
How do we as women recognize the men who are not real men in the sense of they're playing on your time, they're maybe not serious, maybe they have dangling a carrot in front of your face. Like, this is going to be something. It's going to be a relationship. How do you recognize when they're not real?
[00:26:50] Speaker C: So I, you know, one of the things that men will tell you, tell me especially, is I can't, I can't tell them what a real man is because I'm not a man. And so I'll own that. I'm just staying my space as a woman.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:03] Speaker C: And I'll say this. If somebody is dangling a carrot in front of you pretending they want a relationship playing in your face, you have to set the boundary that I'm not gonna tolerate, that. I'm not gonna put up with it. I deserve more than that. Neither you step up or you step off, and that's it. We don't even have to go through a are you a real man? Conversation. You are not the one for me.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:25] Speaker C: Exactly. Any of my time.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: And, you know, but I think that for the longest time, men were playing these mind games of tricking women out of their standards or out of like, am I crazy for wanting this? Do I not deserve certain things? You know, so, but I think nowadays what I've seen for most of my women friends is that they're being more patient and they're, they're being alone and they're that self care and all that kind of stuff. But how important, before getting into a relationship, how important do you talk to them about that relationship they have with themselves?
[00:28:03] Speaker C: Absolutely. So, so with upper echelon, I have two therapists on deck. I have a regular therapist. We talk about emotional and mental, you know, health and making sure you are healed from your past and you're not bitter and you nothing, you know, you, you've healed your parents relationship because a lot of stuff we dealing with came from our childhood parents mess and we passing that on. So making sure you heal from that sex therapist, let me tell you, that's baby, that right there.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: Wait, let me tell you something. I think it's, listen, I think it's really key because I'm going to tap into my old school holidays for a second.
I, listen, I was like, I was a counselor and I ran into so many married men and what I thought, what I the light bulb that went off to me was like, why don't y'all do the sex counseling, like, before you get into these marriages and whatever? Why not explore your fantasies, the things that you want, so that you can get out of life exactly what you want? Because I actually think that trans women and this whole conversation that we've been having right now is here to free us all, because I think there are men who know that they're not attracted to men.
They're not attracted to men.
But like you said, sometimes they want the d and the d. Listen, I'm gonna tell you. Sometimes the girls want the d. Want the d, but we don't. What's attached to the d?
And so what I think is, is that men don't want a man attached to another d. Right.
[00:29:48] Speaker C: I dated a guy who was trans attracted, and we had that conversation through.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Oh, I'm so glad that you. Because we got it. Okay.
Yes, yes, yes.
[00:29:58] Speaker C: I really liked him. Let me start off by saying dude was handsome, smarteendez, tall, successful, had all the things right. And he was a whole freak. And I loved it. I'm like, okay, I love it, you know, because we had, like. We had, like, a whole list of things we were gonna do. And I'm like, yes, let's do it. And he was so open, and I was like, I'm like, this is fun.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Speaker C: Then we get into it, and I learned that he was trans attracted, and honestly, he had been with more trans women than.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:30:28] Speaker C: This is where it starts changing, because, honestly, every time we got ready to have sex, he slid into my butt, and I'm like, up here.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:30:38] Speaker C: Cause that's really what he used to do.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:30:40] Speaker C: That's what you used to do it. But I got a whole vagina.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:43] Speaker C: I want you to be.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: I want you to be into it.
[00:30:46] Speaker C: He didn't really know, like, even, like, oral sex.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Wow. He didn't.
[00:30:50] Speaker C: He. I'm like, so you like the deep. Like, this is how we got into this.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:30:54] Speaker C: Like you telling me you're not attracted to Mendez. Okay, I won't put that on. You're not attracted to me, but you're not attracted to me either.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: You don't know what to do with this.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Exactly. And, you know, and I just think that what we're hitting on here is. It's a spectrum. It's such a spectrum.
[00:31:11] Speaker C: Spectrum.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Because you got men like that, but then you got men who truly can do both. Can do both.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: And what? And so. And it's really about something they want every once in a while, or is this. Or whatever.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: But.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: But it's so. It's like a girl, a woman that's willing to strap or do certain things. Things.
[00:31:29] Speaker C: They'll be down with that.
[00:31:30] Speaker B: And the thing is, though, is that I think that a lot of women, a lot of women would more so be in a space of shaming them for the desire. For the desire.
[00:31:39] Speaker C: And so that's why they don't. They're not honest.
He was HIV positive. He had been undetectable.
[00:31:45] Speaker B: I love that you're saying all this, because, again, even the guy that was talking about that put the shelf in my thing, he was HIV positive. And what. And I'm going to tap back into what you're saying there. But what.
What's so amazing in that is that in dating, what I've learned, a lesson I've learned about dating is that dating is about privilege.
Dating is a privilege that so many people might not get to participate in. Some. If they, you know, if they're disabled or if, you know, various things. Some folks, when they're HIV positive now, mind you, so much has changed. But depending on your mental. Their mental set and your mental mindset, that can be a barrier.
[00:32:27] Speaker C: Yeah. And most cis women, we're not. We don't even know anything about this. It's like. It's like it's not even in our sphere. You HIV positive? Next. So for me, he was actually the first man I met who honestly said, hey, shay, I'm HIV positive. I want you to talk to my doctor. I want you to know I met his doctor. I knew his status. He had been undetectable for three years.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: I got on prep like it was a whole thing. Even I didn't have to. The doctor was like, you don't have to. He can't pass it to you. But I was like, I don't know.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Just to be safe.
[00:32:57] Speaker C: Yeah, listen, I don't know about all that. Yeah, we gonna get on.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: But that was for your company.
[00:33:02] Speaker C: But the fact that he was such a stand up dude to just like, lay it on the line and tell me everything and even tell me that he was trans attracted. Cause so many don't tell you that information. So many husbands. Husbands don't tell their wives. Right. And they dipping and dabbing out there, you know, being.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: But like a lot of times the husbands aren't honest about it.
[00:33:21] Speaker C: They aren't. And you don't. That's. That's why. So we talk about HIV.
Black women are getting HIV at alarming rates.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:29] Speaker C: And we got to talk about why that is. Yeah, it's because we all sleeping with the same men. And when I say we, I'm talking about we, as in gay men are sleeping with our men trans. But we all sleep with the same men. Let's just talk about that. But.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: But, you know, you say we're all sleeping with the same men, and that is a fact. But I think what is fueling the fire of violence is women who say a real man wouldn't be doing that.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: So that's why I said I steered clear from that.
And this is why I said to dude I was dating who was trans attracted. Now I'll stand ten toes down. That was a real man.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: That man told me his status. Let me talk to his doctor.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:10] Speaker C: So everything was clear and transparent. I have nothing but respect for him. And even though we decided to part ways, I will never disrespect him, and I'm not gonna let anybody disrespect him. Because you're not gonna say he's not a real man because he has sexual preferences. Because if I told you I like to sleep with women every now and then, you never gonna question my womanhood. My womanhood is never questioned by who I sleep with.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: Why would his be on this podcast? It's called no opportunity wasted.
What do you see as far as when it comes to dating and people being ready for the opportunity of love? What does it mean to be ready for love?
[00:34:52] Speaker C: I think that's a great question, and I think you hit on it a lot about yourself, working on yourself, knowing what you want, but also believing that you deserve those things. So many times we have. We can write it off a list of what we want. Do you believe you deserve everything you just said?
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: And not just on some surface? Yeah, I believe I'm 100%. Do you really believe, if this person walked into your life right now, do you feel worthy of that? So many people do. Not because of whatever they've done in their past or whatever, where they've come from or what they look like, and.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: They'Re even probably faking the front that they do. Yeah. But it really, underneath, don't feel like you deserve it.
[00:35:28] Speaker C: So I really, for me, I went through a whole transformation of treating myself like I wanted to be treated.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:35:35] Speaker C: Taking myself on the dates, on the trips, on all the things that I wanted and getting the treatment that I felt like I deserved, that was part of my healing journey, because obviously, the fact that I allowed myself to be in situations where I was not treated correctly, allowing myself to be mistreated, misused, whatever. Neglected. I was neglected in a relationship. Like, man just totally stopped taking me on dates. Just totally. Yeah. And I allowed that.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: Right?
[00:36:02] Speaker C: So for all the things that I allowed, I worked on myself to say, you deserve more than that, and you will not. You will not tolerate that anymore ever again. And so because I truly believe that. I believe that's how I was able to attract someone who also looks at me like I hung the moon and stars. Right. And I deserve this.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:36:22] Speaker C: I deserve this. Absolutely. And I tell him all the time, you deserve this because I know I'm. I know I'm good to you, and you deserve this, too. So I think that's what we have to get to self work of addressing the issues. I'm not saying sweep them on, sleep them under the rug because you have issues, you have childhood issues, you have trauma. You have things that you do need to confront, you do need to deal with. But even in spite of having all that stuff, you still deserve love.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. And do you work with everybody? Do you work with all identities? Do you have orientation?
[00:36:52] Speaker C: Let me say this. I have never. I've never worked with anyone who. Who considered themselves to be, but it's not because I would not. They just don't come to me.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: Well, listen, we can start a fresh new. Listen, you looking for love?
[00:37:08] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Hit shape. Prime us up at upper echelon. What is it?
[00:37:12] Speaker C: Matchmaking.
[00:37:12] Speaker B: Upper echelon matchmaking.
So talk to me about one of your success stories. Like what is one of your matches that you're really proud of?
[00:37:25] Speaker C: My most recent match is the one I'm most proud of because we actually became friends. This was a client. She's a surgeon, and she's a millionaire. Like, wow, she make five, 6 million.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Real millionaire.
[00:37:39] Speaker C: And at first, because, remember, my business at the time was middle class matchmaker, so she was the first person. She's really the impetus of me switching, even though Rick Ross offered me a million dollars and I switched to upper echelon after him. But honestly, this client right here, she was like, the guys that you're introducing me to, shay, they're great guys. I introduced her to like, a teacher. And, you know, she was like, he's a good guy, but she was like, why don't you come to my house for the weekend?
[00:38:06] Speaker B: Right.
[00:38:07] Speaker C: I get to her house, baby, this is like. It looked like it need to be in a magazine.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:12] Speaker C: It was like every room was decorated with furniture that belonged in the room measured to fit each room. It was on a whole nother level, $2 million home I walked into, and I was like, oh, oh, okay. I need to introduce you to somebody who will walk in here and not feel intimidated.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:38:29] Speaker C: Cause that's how I felt.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:38:30] Speaker C: I walked in that room and I was like, oh, can I afford this? If you. You need a man that feels like, if she don't have it, I can take care of this. I'm good. That kind of solid. That's what she needed. She wasn't really asking for somebody who made what she made. But you can't walk in there and.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Be like, but a man is going to feel intimidated in that space.
[00:38:48] Speaker C: Most men.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:38:50] Speaker C: So my goal was to find somebody who would not, because I'm not going to tell this woman to water herself down to dumb herself. I'm talking about she got a brand new Porsche in the driveway. Listen, baby, keep all that. Let me find somebody who can match this energy. So that's what I did. So when I found a guy who could match that energy, who can stand ten toes down with her and support her and love her and never be intimidated, who could book trips and take her all around the world where she wanted to go, and they are. They've been almost a year together, and I feel really good about it.
[00:39:19] Speaker B: That's incredible. Congratulations. Yes, thank you.
[00:39:22] Speaker C: I'm happy for them, too. And I'm already like, send me invitations. I'm coming to the wedding. The baby showers, all the things, so.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. That's amazing. So this show is called no opportunity wasted. And so I would do not want to waste any opportunity for those that are in Atlanta looking for love and.
[00:39:40] Speaker C: Nationwide because I work.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: Oh, wait.
[00:39:42] Speaker C: Oh, shoot.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: You said, how do you work nationwide? How does it work?
[00:39:46] Speaker C: Science in Chicago, DC laden?
[00:39:49] Speaker B: Do they be singing videos? Like, what's.
[00:39:51] Speaker C: I meet them. They either come here for their schedule. Yes. I hope it's up for echelon, baby.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yes.
[00:39:59] Speaker C: They nothing but a thing. I hop on a flight.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: That's amazing.
[00:40:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Okay, so, um. So anyone out there that's looking to, uh, find love anywhere nationwide, how do they locate you?
[00:40:14] Speaker C: My website is upper echelon matchmaking.com. you can also follow me on instagram.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: All right, well, that is great. Well, thank you so much for just bringing the opportunity of love into the consciousness in this conversation, because, you know, I think that there's, right now, maybe a lot of people are in a space of maybe giving up or just feeling the angst between men and women or just between people, gender wars, all these different things.
[00:40:45] Speaker C: So here's the thing. And I honestly believe this. And no matter how you identify who you are, where you are, what you look like, when. When you were created, you were also created with a companion in mind. And if you stay open and you believe that, I believe you can attract that person who will love you. You're never too much. You just too much for the wrong person. I believe that for everybody. And if everybody just believes that for themselves, because really, it's all about what you believe about yourself.
[00:41:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:12] Speaker C: It doesn't matter. What anybody else thinks is what you believe about yourself. And it was really for me, when I got to the point where I was like, I believe this about myself. I know I deserve this, and I'm ready for it. I deserve it, and I'm ready for.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: It, and I'm ready.
[00:41:25] Speaker C: Then you can receive it. Absolutely. So I wish that for everybody.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Well, you know, I am. I won't say that I've always believed that I deserved it, but I definitely got there. I can't say that I've always been ready, but I think I might be ready now.
[00:41:39] Speaker C: I think you are. Maybe you found her.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: I might have found. Yeah, maybe she found me, you know? And again, I think it was just that my mind was open enough at this moment because I hadn't thought about being in a relationship with a woman before. I've been open, but, like, it just never happened. It was just never happened. And so some. It was just, like, serendipitous that I met her, and then, like, we click. It's the. It's what I've been looking for in a relationship. I've been looking for a spiritual partnership. She's joined the buddhist. Buddhist organization that. I mean, we chant together. Like, it's all the things I've been looking for. So, hopefully, y'all. I mean, you know, I'm not gonna be telling you my business, but, you know, eventually, I may be talking about her. Maybe you might. Her photo, maybe.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: What?
[00:42:19] Speaker C: You've been with women before her?
[00:42:20] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:42:21] Speaker C: So you've always been paying?
[00:42:22] Speaker B: I haven't always been paying, but I would say in the last five years.
[00:42:26] Speaker C: So when you. Before your bottom surgery, you slept with women, too?
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Not really. And I think that that was the issue for me. It was. I wasn't who I wanted to be, and so because I. I remember being with a woman in college, I actually really loved her.
[00:42:45] Speaker C: Were you gay before?
[00:42:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:47] Speaker C: Okay, so this is before you were gay then.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: This was when I was still.
[00:42:51] Speaker C: You were gay?
[00:42:52] Speaker B: I was, but she. I, she recognized that I was bi, and so was she. So. Or that I would. She. And so she was like, oh, I see that you're queer, you know, and so am I. But being with her, I just didn't. I felt uncomfortable sexually because my position, my role in it just felt so. The moment I started having sex young, and the couple times that I've had sex, it felt I was in the wrong seat. It just felt like I was in the wrong role. And I never felt like I could give her what she wanted from men, you know? And so even now with a woman, I'm more feminine. I'm the receptor. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't have, you know, so if I were to, like, strap on it, a lesbian relationship now, don't mind you. Like, I've tried with dating other girls and I realized that my trans. My dysphoria, even though I'm pretty much over it, but have a little of it, it'll be. It'll show up the way it shows up. Is it. When I'm with men, it's easy to have a contrast.
[00:43:58] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:43:59] Speaker B: When I'm with another woman, um, everything about me comes into hyper focus. And I might be comparing myself to her as far as, like, if I'm not as soft or if I. My hands or, or my voice or this or that. Now, mind you, I don't think about all those things now. But when you're. Because our society so full of gender roles, when we go to a restaurant, we're doing certain things. If she is feminine and I am feminine, but then at that moment, I'm not.
[00:44:28] Speaker C: Let's say you're not feminine enough at that.
[00:44:30] Speaker B: Okay, I could be doing this.
[00:44:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:32] Speaker B: Cuz I'm. I look cute right now, but in a certain dynamic, if she's now wearing a dress and more feminine and long hair now, if I end up opening the door doing certain things. Oh, I just. I'm not saying, but I could just. I've had a situation happen where I realize that something in my body is.
[00:44:51] Speaker C: Confused because, well, and that's another unique. That's unique to trans women, right? Because I don't feel like that ever. If I open the door for my man, it doesn't shift me into a thing, right? I just open the door.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:45:04] Speaker C: He might say, don't do that again. But you know what I'm saying? I don't feel a thing. So that's also something that's unique to trans women.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: It is and I think that I hope, and this is one thing I'm hoping eventually, is that we get to a time where, as women, we can delight in the things that are uniquely ours, of course. And not feel like it's a competition. Like, anytime I'm speaking in women's spaces, there's. When it comes to certain things. Periods, having children, what have you. I don't have a dog in the fight, so I can't really. But I'm gonna advocate for you. Yeah, for sure. But we got to get to a place where we can recognize our differences but also realize we dating a lot of the same.
[00:45:41] Speaker C: The same d. Honey, we all sucking in the same d. I'm just being honest. I learned that in that relationship with him. I'm so glad he opened my eyes to this whole nother world, because before I was so blinded, like, oh, that's over there. No, no, we have some intersection here.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:45:56] Speaker C: And our intersectionality is in sex.
[00:45:59] Speaker B: You know what, shay? I think I'm gonna have to have you back.
[00:46:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:02] Speaker B: Because I think that we had the conversation. I think there's so much more we could actually talk about.
[00:46:08] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:46:09] Speaker B: And I think that. Yeah. I just want to tap into so much more. So this is just the beginning. Thank you for coming here. Oh, yeah. I'll definitely invite you back. Where.
[00:46:17] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: So where did they find you?
[00:46:18] Speaker C: You can find me at upper echelonlinematchmaking.com or shea primus, matchmaker.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: Awesome. Yes, y'all. Oh, be open.
[00:46:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: It's time to be open to love.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: All right, y'all. We will be right back.
[00:46:30] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:32] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:46:33] Speaker C: Yeah. Another thing, too, is when you're in a relationship, you could be honest with your partner, like, if it's the one for you. Like, my man know, like, sometimes. Cause I'm bisexual. Sometimes I want girl time. And I'm able to be honest with him in our relationship. Like, you know what, baby? I need some girl time. And he's like, okay, you can have it. And one time we got a room, and he just sat right there. Me and this girl had our little time.
[00:46:54] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:46:55] Speaker C: And he was like, you good? Like, yeah, I'm good. Now. I need to d. Cause it's something she can't do.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:47:02] Speaker C: I've never done a strap on.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. I mean, listen, some of them know how to. Some of them know how to.
[00:47:06] Speaker C: I've never been with a lesbian. I've never been with the butch girl. Right, right. It's just like two feminine girls.
[00:47:12] Speaker B: Right?
Yeah.
[00:47:14] Speaker C: We have girl time. And then I'm like, no. And I need to d. And then. So then he came through, and then she recorded the whole thing. It was so fun. I love it.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: But if you're in conversation, and I.
[00:47:23] Speaker C: Was able to be honest with him, and he didn't judge me. He didn't shame me. He didn't slut shame me. He didn't. Am I not enough for you? He was like, okay, that's what you want. We'll do it. I'll make it happen. And it was no. No intimidation, you know, because you can't have it all. You can if you're. If you. With the right person.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:47:41] Speaker C: And I'm a lot. I'm extra. I'm all those things. But I'm not too much for him. Yeah, because he. This is what he wants. He loves that I'm extrade. But for some men, I have been too much. I've been too hyper sexual. I wanted too much. All the things that people nitpick me on, when you. With the right one, they don't. They don't nitpick you on it. They love you just the way you are.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: Well, listen, here's to everybody finding the right one. And maybe the right one is yourself for right now. But, you know, eventually, like. Like Shay said, maybe there is someone out there for you. Don't. Don't give up. Stay open. Not maybe.
[00:48:16] Speaker C: There is someone for you. Absolutely. There's the right one for you. You deserve it. You got to believe it.
[00:48:22] Speaker B: We'll be right back.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Baby. Thank you, Shea Primus. I am definitely having you back over on the podcast because, girl, we have a lot more to talk about. But until then, and before we go, let me drop a quick buddhist breadcrumb and discuss what we call the treasure tower.
Nitran writes, you may think you offered gifts to the treasure tower of the thus come one mini treasures, but that's not so.
You offered them to yourself.
You yourself are a thus come one who is originally enlightened and endowed with the three bodies.
You should chant nam yoho renge kyo with this conviction.
Then the place where you chant Daimoku will become the dwelling place of the treasure tower. End quote. So I will definitely go into this more deeply at another time. But for now, let me just say this. When I first told my mom that I was practicing Buddhism, she was kind of upset and quoted the Bible about worshipping false idols. I explained to her then that we don't worship the Buddha the way you worship God and Jesus. We're taught that we are the Buddha. And even most christians are taught that God is in everyone and everything. So this practice reminds me that it's through us, through our lives, from the places that we dwell and build community and plant our prayers will sprout a tower of treasures. And I want nothing more than for people to discover the treasure that is their own lives and to treasure the lives of other people.
So this week, let's find an opportunity to treasure one another, starting with yourself.
No opportunity wasted.
