Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome back to now. No opportunity wasted. I'm your host, Angelica Ross.
As you can see, for those who are watching, I am still here in New York City in my hotel room. I am leaving New York tomorrow. I just finished my final performance and took my final bow in Cecilia Gentilli's red ink. It was such an honor and a privilege. It was so fun. It's a one woman show where Cecilia is just telling all of these wild and also endearing stories about her life as a trans woman who grew up in Argentina.
And, you know, the first week we had just Tom, and then I came in on the second week, and then we have peppermint closing out the week. So don't miss that chance. August 13 through the 18th, you'll get to still get to see peppermint.
But I just want to say thank you again to such an amazing team of people that I worked with the whole team at the breaking Binary theater. Nick Corey, the director.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Go, go. Graham, costume design, Adam Honore for lighting design, Sasha Velour for project design, Andrew yee for the original score. Thank you again to Sara Ramirez. Eon Field Stewart. Some of the producers of the show, Rattlesnake Theater. Thank you so much for having us.
Flower Rios. Another associate producer, Joseph Frederick Allen. Thank you so much. Oscar Diaz. Thank you to everybody. And again, I wanted to say all of those names because again, just last week I was talking about how we need to take whatever opportunity and whatever chance we have to acknowledge the work being done by those people behind the scenes who don't often get the credit. So thank you to everyone who worked so tirelessly behind the scenes to make sure that this was the amazing experience that it was. I got to meet Cecilia's partner, Peter, who came to the show. I got to meet so many people who Cecilia touched.
There were so many laughs and tears in the audience, and I got to hug and take photos with so many of the people who came. So thank you again for that experience.
You know, this week's episode, I'm going to be talking to DeWanda wise.
Just an amazing spirit and soul, talented actress.
But before we get into that, you know, this whole episode really is about processing in real time.
And honestly, what Dawanda will talk about, and just as what I experienced on stage doing Cecilia's stories is that as I was acting it out so many of the times, I was processing in real time what it felt like to relive these moments with her, what it felt like to gossip with a girlfriend about some of these stories, it was just an incredible, incredible experience. So this whole episode is going to be about encouraging us to not put off the things that we need to process, that we need to work through that might be challenging for us.
It's okay to take breaks, right?
But we have to try to, as much as possible, be willing to be present and to process in real time.
So to get things started off, we're going to start with our buddhist word for the day, which, because I'm traveling, I don't have my book that I normally have with me.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: But no worries, because I had a.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Friend who is also a member of the winner's circle, which you can still join for free at win dot msross.com, a whole new social media platform with no algorithm suppression, suppressing whatever it is that you want to post.
But, you know, he's also a host of his own podcast called the Freedom Cookie and also someone who I recently introduced to the practice of Buddhism. So I messaged him like, Danny, can you send me the buddhist word for the day for Monday, August 12? And so it says, quote, when you look at those of superior capacity, do not disparage yourself.
The Buddha's true intention was that no one, even those of inferior capacity, be denied enlightenment.
Conversely, when you compare yourself with persons of inferior capacity, do not be arrogant and over proud.
Even persons of superior capacity may be excluded from enlightenment if they do not devote themselves wholeheartedly.
End quote. Baby, that's a whole word. And actually, that is a quote from Niitran Daishonin, himself, the 12th century priest. So I'll let that one sink in.
One of the main points that I want to get across to people who meet me, and I'm very grateful for the things that they see in me and so much of the complimentary words and sentiments that they share with me, but I just try to remind them as much as possible that I am only a reflection. So whatever it is that you see in me is also in you.
It may look a little bit different, but there's no need to compare, to compare us. You know, we each have our own beautiful lives that are valuable.
They're worth living and that are worth the recognition.
It's you're worth recognizing.
So as we all learn to process things in real time, let's go ahead and get into my conversation with Dawanda Wise.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Well, oh, my goodness. Welcome to now, Dawanda Wise.
[00:07:06] Speaker C: Thank you. Yes.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: I love that name. Like, are you like one of the artists that kind of created your own name, or is that like a birth.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: Name wise is my mother's maiden name, so wise. My wise is my mother's side of the family. And, I mean, she raised me, so my dad's last name is Jackson, but I knew kind of, like, instantly that I was going to use my mom's last name.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Wow. Okay, so swize. Because, you know, this podcast is basically contextualized in Buddhism, which is full of wise them. Wisdom wise them. You know, I was making up a word, but, you know, so. And it's all about no opportunity wasted. And I know, you know this. You know, there's this saying that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And so for this podcast, what I try to kind of help people fully understand is we need to stop sort of coveting and, like, salivating and being jealous of other people's lives or the. What we think are the outcomes of people's lives, and understand that each one of us had to rise to the occasion, to the opportunity. It wasn't. Nobody gave us anything. And even if they did give you something, you show up, still have to show up. So what I want to know is. Cause my first sort of introduction to you wasn't, she's gotta have it. And I. That shook kind of the culture, you know what I mean? In the sense of, like, being so, especially in a black culture, it, for me, I found that narrative to be challenging to our culture. What was it like for you to take on that project at that time, not only for yourself to be ready, but what kind of were the challenges and, like, obviously, rewards of being on that project?
[00:09:16] Speaker C: I think, you know, it's really wild because to your original point, it's kind of difficult to contextualize anything in the moment.
You know, I think I will say, up until that, you know, that was my second series regular. My first series regular was shots fired, but it was my first series lead, and I had, up until that point, tested for so many serious leads as.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: We do, as is part of. I don't think a lot of people know, just no matter where you kind of are in all of the things, there's a lot of steps.
[00:10:01] Speaker C: So many steps. Yeah, so many steps. So many steps you forget about. And, um, that one in particular, speaking of, you know, doing the. Your prerequisites, um, you know, some folks know this, but it came to be because I produced an indie film, uh, that Spike saw. So I produced an indie film, and it went to Sundance in 2016, like, at the top of 2016, and he saw that, and the execs at Netflix saw that movie, how to tell your douchebag.
And then all the writers in the room, every single writer in that room, they're all like, these phenomenal New York City playwrights, and they had all seen me in a play three years prior in 2013.
So, you know, I wasn't Spike's first choice for that role. He really wanted to cast someone else.
But everyone, I'm not like, everyone was like, no, no, no, no. She's it.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my goodness. You got favor over you, major. So were you always like, you know, we talk about the preparatory work. You know, one of the things that I think Hollywood and also Covid and also just the boom of technology, also the discriminatory nature of Hollywood has kind of put so many of us in the seat of being creators and writing sort of our own stories. Was that something that you have always been doing is sort of producing your own content?
[00:11:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it was. It was partially. I know, right. And now they, like, they make it romantic, but really, you're like, oh. And then if you start doing it, you have to keep doing it. That's what they don't really, you know.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, because I see a lot of these.
Listen, I'm an actor.
[00:12:07] Speaker C: Yes, yes.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Okay. And I love the craft of acting.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: I cannot see myself going to TikTok and Instagram and doing full blown skits and doing camera lights.
[00:12:25] Speaker C: I know.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Like editing.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Because that's the whole thing now. Like, even with the basics that I'm doing right now, you know, with content and doing small edits, but with that kind when you're an actor, you know, I saw a lot of people sort of maybe even get discovered in that way. Like Danielle Babcock, I think is her last name. Babcocker. She's hilarious on her TikTok and things like that. Now she's a ghost on CB's and that, I don't know if that's a generational thing of being the producer, doing all the things at once, but I'm still kind of struggling with that, with self tapes.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Oh, listen, I think. I think it's, it's absolutely, it's partially generational because, yeah, we didn't, we weren't acculturated. It's the same reason why people are like, they, whenever I'm like, oh, yeah, I had to learn how to be photographed. Like, I had to learn, you know, people are like, oh, you're so pretty. And I'm like, no, no, no, it is a skill set.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Yes, I know that skill set.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: Well, it is a skill set. And one you should not undermine. Okay.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: No, not at all. People will tell me, oh, Angelica, you don't take a bad picture. I'm like, sweetie, you haven't seen them. I have tried my hardest to keep them off the Internet, but they not only do they got a couple bad shots, Wikifeet got a couple bad shots of me, too. You know, they. Them. Are you on Wikifeet? I know they got you, too.
[00:13:56] Speaker C: Of course.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Yes. You know, it's one of the things that comes with the job.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: Right. But I will say, I. I do feel like I came from a little bit of an advantage because the. My training program was very much, well, like, create your own work. Like, I. You know, I.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: And where did you train?
[00:14:14] Speaker C: I went to NYU. And NYU. I always joke about it, but they, like, outsource their training. There's, like, all these different schools, of course, but it was Atlantic Theater company, and they were very. From the very beginning, they were just like, look, you just gotta, you know, like, make your own work. And, you know, anyone who, the trained eye, can look at my resume, the full resume, and see the trillion shorts, you know, and if you come from independent film, you know, you did every job. Like, it's not. You got the acting credit, but you were also a grip. You're probably also hair and makeup. You were probably also producing it. You were probably also script supervisor. You know what I mean?
[00:14:58] Speaker B: So I will say that is the. That is one upside, I guess, to what's been going on lately is the creators who are, you know, seeing some success again, obviously, the algorithm, you know, may the odds be in your favor sort of situation, but. But at least it is showing people that it's not about just being pretty and being the star in front of the camera.
[00:15:23] Speaker C: Right.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Like that.
Create. Being a creative is about being able to do something in the creation process.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Like, be one of the hands on creating things.
[00:15:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Do you. Do you see, you know, with the current environment for us as actors, you know, we just got off strike, you know? Cause I'm one of those folks as well, where if they call me, this is what Hollywood needs to know. And if y'all. Hollywood. Listen, if y'all didn't get it right the first time, let me clarify myself when I say that I'm done with Hollywood. I'm done with the shenanigans.
[00:16:04] Speaker C: Absolutely. Same.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: I'm done with the culture of silence. I'm done with having to deal with abusers on set and knowing that people are going to riot this project. But we want to still have this, like, the guy from the flash that Ezra Miller, I think his name was, or something like that, where it's like, the difference in how Hollywood treated him versus Jonathan Majors. Jonathan Majors. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just. So with all of this being said and the industry trying to have so much of a capitalistic control over creativity, where do you see, personally, your growth in this industry and what you. What you want to kind of do with your sort of path?
[00:16:52] Speaker C: That's a great question. I mean, I. You know, I was legit just now, like today, asking myself in this season, in this moment, where, to your point, artists are being crippled, like, wildly undervalued. You know, there is a lot of punitive behavior happening because of the strikes. A whole lot of, like, oh, y'all went on strike. Okay. You know, there's the constriction we knew was gonna be the case, but, you know, asking actors to audition who you wouldn't have asked to audition doing so. So that then you can, like, underpay them.
Like all these, like, oh, guys, we. The cap we have is this amount. And it being like, that's it. Take it or leave it.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: But let me tell you, one of my friends gave me a saying that, I swear to you, has set me so free. And she said, angelica, she said, she goes, some days chicken, some days feathers.
[00:17:56] Speaker C: Love it.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: And she basically said, if you can be okay with the fact that that's going to be the reality, then you never have to be afraid of anybody taking anything from you because you're okay when it's some days just feathers.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: And I think that many actors who are come from the days of waiting tables. Now, waiting tables has also turned to maybe coding or doing lifts or doing other different things that don't require you to take work home.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: And what many of us were ready and willing to do was say, okay, Bob Iger, y'all. I'm what? I wait. I'll wait it out. You trying to wait till we lose our mortgage, our homes, and all this kind of stuff, y'all saying, all this crazy stuff. All right, well, I guess I'm gonna wait a few tables. I'm a, you know, do. Let me tell you something. I got an Audi that, um, Bill is due every month. And when I tell you, when Covid hit, I had signed up for lift because I was like, one thing. I won't be as broke.
[00:18:56] Speaker C: Listen, I am. I. My husband just worked on this play in New York, and it's a play. So it's a play. It's not.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: I know. Play. Listen, I was on Broadway and all his, and it was still a play.
[00:19:07] Speaker C: It's a play. All his castmates are like, oh, what'd your wife make for you today? And I was like, cuz y'all wasting your money eating out.
Right, right.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:19:18] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: No, yes. Cuz when you're in a theater, and especially you're New York, you know, there's the food around your order and things. But it's like that. And that, honestly, all of it, all of it has to become such a strategic approach that you realize, oh, I'm a business.
[00:19:37] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: And a lot of people, I think, that come into the industry might not yet fully realize how much as an individual, even as a star, you think I have so many people. When I was, like, imposed on things like this, so many friends were like, oh, you know, can you introduce me to your manager? And I'm just like, sweetie, let me just say something. Until your situation becomes unmanageable, you don't need a manager.
So until your business is at a space. Because they, my manager, like, you know, it's cute. You like, they do some things or whatever, but they. I'm the job. You understand? Like, I make the phone ring. They help sell me. You understand? They help close the deals and whatnot. But at the end of the day, if they I gave them nothing to manage, we'd be both sitting around twilling our thumb.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: Right? Absolutely.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: So, husband, how long's the marriage been?
[00:20:28] Speaker C: 15 years. I've been married for 15 years. I know.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Wait a minute. Did you get married when you was twelve?
Seed? I don't believe in them.
Girl, when did you get married?
[00:20:43] Speaker C: I was in college when I got married.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: I bout to say so. It was a college love.
[00:20:49] Speaker C: It was. It was very clear. It was college, but it was also very clear.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: What do you mean by that?
[00:20:57] Speaker C: It was wildly clear. Like, I, you know, I was trying to describe it the other day to someone, my friends, you know, my birthday was the other day. We had, like, dinner.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Yes, happy birthday.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: And I was like, I realized, like, I was. I remember introducing Alano to my family, and they were like, oh, he's like this. You know, he's like that. And he's like, he's essentially.
We are so wildly compatible. He is just the extroverted version to my. Introverted.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Wow, that's nice.
[00:21:30] Speaker C: But they like, they were like, oh, he's so, like, particular and neurotic. And I was like, that's how I am.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Wait, but so is he in the business also?
[00:21:38] Speaker C: Yeah, he's an actor, too.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: Oh. So how's that? Y'all be competing, or y'all just compete? We got.
[00:21:45] Speaker C: Listen, that's also my favorite thing. My favorite joke is, like, you know, I understand the construct. Like, I feel like this is really kind of exploding the last 15 years, but that notion, that's just like. And then I have my stuff, and then you have your stuff, and then we put all of the forces of our powers combined and da da da da. But we ain't had nothing. We met, right? We had student loans.
What else we have?
[00:22:12] Speaker B: And both. Wait, wait. And both. Wait, wait. Cuz, let me say something.
This would drive a lot of people nuts.
[00:22:19] Speaker C: What's that?
[00:22:20] Speaker B: So you're telling me you met in college and you both were. Were you both, at the time, still also looking, planning to be actors?
[00:22:30] Speaker C: Uh huh.
Uh huh.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: That's a hard. Somebody. Somebody. Mama and daddy was not happy.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: I know. I know. It was reckless. It was reckless because.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: I know, I know. So were your both parents, like, very supportive of the path that y'all were taking?
[00:22:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: All of our. Yeah, all of our parents were wildly, wildly supportive. You know, even if not, like, my family could never be financially supportive.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: But were you able to, like, stay with them and things like that at certain times, or.
[00:23:01] Speaker C: No, they're in Maryland. I was. I mean, I've always been scrappy. I've always been like. Like, I got to. One of my friends reminded me, she was like, she said, we trained together, and she said the first time we methemeral was reading a business of acting book.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: You. I kind of.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Girl, I was just like, I can't graduate and not be, like, in, like, going, like, I need.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: But the thing is, I didn't know I was. I'll be honest, I didn't. I didn't get it at first because what. I was obviously going through a lot when I was younger and trying to figure some things out, but I was trying to. What was going on with me going into graduating high school, going into college, I was having identity issues up the wazoo. So my grades were suffering.
[00:23:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: And so I was a really smart kid, but, like, my grades were suffering because I was distracted. So when it came to then going into college, I wanted to go in and do finally just be myself and do acting and do whatever. My dad was like, nope.
[00:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: He was like, you're going to study business. And he was like, there is for, as a black person, you have to study business so that you have control over something in life, you know, whatever. And I was just like, you know, I didn't get it at the time.
When I tell you my dad's nickname for me these days is his little CEO. Because I do business, honey, because I'm over top of my business. What were some of the challenges that looked like for you both? Like, trying to both prioritize and take the opportunity that is your career, but also compromise, in a way, as a woman to support this man's dreams also. And, like, I know there had to be challenges.
[00:24:47] Speaker C: Yeah, of course.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: What'd that look like?
[00:24:49] Speaker C: I think one, it was just like, deep humility. Like, deep humility, you know, like, constantly asking for help, whether it was like.
I mean, everywhere, honestly, sac foundation. We definitely. When we were first married, we were on food stamps. We're in the Bronx. We lived in the Bronx.
We had to. We used to go to redeemer Presbyterian.
We had to ask them for help. Alan, those brothers helped us, like, a lot of. A lot of humility when it came to, like, financial insecurity and just deep discomfort. Like, I realized, you know, part of something that was. Became later on to your point about, you know, an understanding in a buddhist practice.
I always used to joke that I had an ironic privilege in that I was accustomed. Like, I grew up without a lot, so. And I. And I know that sometimes when people don't have a lot, it consumes them. Right. So then it, like, it becomes this kind of hunger, this drive that is almost insatiable.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, in Buddhism, we call that the world of hunger. That is one of those worlds where people get trapped, that they're so hungry, they'll eat their own.
[00:26:16] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:17] Speaker C: You know, and for me, it was kind of like. Like my mother had this. She had a very monopoly money point of view on money, just in general. She still does. I don't now I'm a little more, like, financially savvy. But she was very much. Well, like, if we couldn't pay a bill, she's like, what they gonna do? We don't have it. It was just like that. Like, she was just like. I mean, we don't. If I. If I had it, you would have it.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: But that is very freeing. Like, I mean, I. To be honest, that's how I was able to start to break through my financial karma. I was constantly bank accounts negative. My credit score was in the tanker. Like, it was all kind of things. And then at some point, I was so stressed out from the phone calls and the bill collectors. And I was like, actually, you don't have to be stressed out. Why am I sitting here letting them stress me out? Yeah, I ain't got it, girl. I don't got it. And I'm gonna be okay with not gotten it. I'm not gonna feel like a loser. I'm not gonna tell myself, this is.
[00:27:18] Speaker C: Not a part of my identity. This is temporary, you know? And that point of view, that perspective on where we were was a gift that I gave him, you know? Cause of course he came into it. Of course he had this whole thing. It was cracking me up, actually. Thank you for giving me this memory before we were married. He was like, you know, I just want to be able to provide for my wife. And I was like, what the Shay? I was like, we are actors.
What are you talking about? I was like, that sounds real good, right? And that is not how. That is just not. That's just not how we. I mean, you know, that question about competition, I tell people repeatedly, we have one bank account. We've had one bank account.
Somebody better be making some money.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: So, okay, so, so, so, okay, so with that sort of back and forth that you both have and how you supported each other. Yeah, how does that. How does that manifest in the way? Because what I have found to be challenging at times, and I've now finally started to do better, is I am someone who is a community organizer. I'm someone who is a mentor, just a lot of things. And I have the heart to, like, serve and to, you know, to help folks. But in this, also in this day and age, with social media and a lot of things, the filters of it all has people's perceptions skewed on what is actually required for things. And so for me, what I've learned is, as much as I want to help some folks if they're not willing to go above and beyond in the sense that there's so much information out there to show and demonstrate that you're willing to grab at some yourself.
So what does the balance look like for you as someone who has experienced needing help, needing to call on someone for help, and then maybe sometimes because just because we get grab a hold of something don't mean we actually have something to give at a certain time, especially when you're trying to build on what you got and you have to, you know, so what does the juggle look like for you of input, output, of sort of the gratitude for your journey and the value that you've been able to create in your life and how do you return that value?
[00:30:00] Speaker C: I think, you know, I, before, like, a gift that I received, I think early on was I'm super in terms of, like, my. My love language, like, my output love language, you know, radical presence and acts of service has always been my go to. Like, I've. I'm less of a. And I've always been less of a gift giver and, you know, to varying degrees, especially, obviously with my family, you know, there is, like, financial support and help that, you know, we do what we can, you know, when we can kind of thing. But by and large, it's always been deep volunteerism.
It's one of the first things I do. And I've always done when I, like, move to a new place, which is find, like, where my, you know, where that community is going to be, that service community is going to be. And then I.
To your point about mentoring, I mean, I've been mentoring before I had anything to mentor. Like, I. Because it was also that thing where I feel like I never, I wanted it very badly. Like, I wanted to have a mentor. But, you know, I think the generations above us were really conditioned to be, like, there's only room for one, you know, and I understand some survival like I listen to, you know, it is.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: But you know what? But what's unfortunate about that for me as a black, especially queer trans contributor.
[00:31:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: Is that as a child looking up to everyone and the adults and just knowing as a black person the story of having to work three times as hard, black excellence, you know, and then realizing, like Ebony K. Williams says, like, black excellence is a scam, because the reality is that whiteness gets to be mediocre. What has been difficult for me is I used to think that people were pushing for progress.
I used to think that seeing more black people on television was about the fact that people were pushing for progress.
And it's not that.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: No, at all.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: It's actually the fact. And if people don't understand this, that Hollywood and the government loves symbols, symbols of change, whether that is having a show like pose that has an all black, all queer cast, and we now people thinking we have done something.
But since pose has been off, we haven't had a moment like that since.
Or if we're talking about President Barack Obama and white people thinking that they can soothe our rage with a symbol of progress, and then, so you get into Hollywood, you realize a lot of people are trying to hold on to position, oh, big time, to their place in Hollywood. They're not shaking. They're not. You know, they're not having these conversations. And so what was just a little tricky for me, coming in from not just listen, I grew up doing all the acting stuff. Like, I did the real stuff.
[00:33:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Drama club.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Uda hockey. You know, I'm saying, like, I did all of the things, and because I was trans and black, I had to learn to advocate for my existence.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: And then everyone's like, oh, my God, I wish I, you know, could be an advocate like you or you're such a great. I'm like, I didn't want this job. Like, I didn't sign up for this. I'm just true to it.
[00:34:13] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: I'm just true to the fact that I know that none of these privileges are going to protect me. I'm just true to it, knowing that if I rely on something they given me, then I can. I can best. Sure. At least know that they can take it away.
[00:34:26] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: You know, how do you see. Do you see a vision of true liberation for us as black creatives? And I guess even this is just. I guess it goes outside of craves, too, because when we have the appeals court saying that the fearless fund is discriminatory in providing funds for black folks, all these movements that we do to just take up a small percentage of the. Of the situation.
[00:34:56] Speaker C: Right?
[00:34:57] Speaker B: So what's the line between going along with what, the crumbs and the situation they're giving us and truly being radical with things and, you know, what do you. Where do you see us building this true liberator? Do you think we're going to even get there?
[00:35:16] Speaker C: I think it reminds me of it.
I think what happens, because I've definitely been a part of these beautiful, earnest, meaningful, action oriented conversations. And then, you know, it's part of the reason why I moved out of LA. It's like, and then someone books a job and they're temporarily okay, and they're. They're gone. I mean, that's just. It's like the nature of. It's the nature of human beings.
[00:35:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: It's also just the nature of, you know, how difficult it is to build community in Hollywood. And it's just so deeply human to be like, oh, I'm okay now. So.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: But, you know, and no matter how.
[00:35:59] Speaker C: Temporary, and I don't think that. I think a lot of folks don't realize, like, oh, that's just, even if it's like, you booked that one show that's gonna be on for seven years, that is still temporary, you know, that is absolutely.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that is so temporary. But also, I think that you just made me think about something when you, you know, talked about community, because I think.
I think that is like, the thing that we're being tricked out of.
[00:36:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: Is we're being tricked out of community.
[00:36:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: We're. People are hoping that they can get to the status.
[00:36:37] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: Where on their instagram, they're only following one person.
Do you understand what saying? Because it's like, there's. That's not community.
[00:36:49] Speaker C: No, that's.
[00:36:50] Speaker B: That's. I'm a star, you know? And I remember one of the things, they hit the cutting room floor when I was. I was on Laverne's. Laverne Cox's, like, her. Her podcast, if we're being honest. And I would be really honest in this situation. And I was just like, listen, sis, I was just like, you know, I feel like the industry is shooting us as our stars in opposite sides of the galaxy and is keeping us occupied in these ways that we're not building power together. Our stardom can build together. And, you know, and I have called several of the girls up and been like, hey, I got an idea. I got this. I got that. But folks are more concerned in building a, because that's what you. To win at the Hollywood games.
It is about playing a certain game. What I am trying to do is set us all free. And the reason why I'm saying that is because, again, having the audacity to call out rhymer, if you do this or whatever, it ain't about a lot of things. All it is about is saying you're not going to disrespect me. I've done nothing to garner disrespect or what have you. We're going to do this respectfully. And so if we can't do this respectfully, no, you can't pee on me. No, you can't, you know, sexually, no, I won't do the casting couch. No, I'm not doing certain things. And if that's what you're saying is required, then I'm gonna be over here and I'm gonna have community. I'm gonna create in community. One thing I love that Issa Rae was talking about at one point was that, you know, instead of thinking about, oh, I wanna work with this person and I wanna work with that person. Being able to look to your left.
[00:38:29] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: And your right. And being able to collaborate with the people that you're collaborating with.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: So are you still, as you have this sort of, like, you know, foot in on these other shows. You're on Netflix. You're doing all these things. Are you still creating these lanes in the meantime?
[00:38:44] Speaker C: Always. And I mean, you know, and I'm also.
I'm also the one who will thankfully, you know, I have, like, I have a lovely relationship with my reps, like, an actual relationship, and I will go to them for someone else, do it all the time. Like, no, I'm not attached whatsoever. You know, I have one friend.
Brilliant. Completely, you know, made an entire movie himself, and, you know, just reached out and was like, hey, you know, he was trying to find kind of closer producers. Couldn't do that. Still finished it, you know, and now he's trying to find, like, sales reps or, you know, any inns for, like, festivals or. You know, I just think that ultimately, I will always be a working class girl from Maryland. And whether I'm doing it and being in community on, like, a small, quiet scale or to your point, we're really organized, and we go ahead and build something over here instead. I'm, you know, I'm game.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: So where are.
[00:39:55] Speaker C: Where.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Where is over here? Where are you?
[00:39:57] Speaker C: I live in the northeast. I moved out of LA two years ago.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: That's great. Do you have kids?
[00:40:02] Speaker C: No.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: Do you want kids?
[00:40:05] Speaker C: No.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: That. Listen, listen, listen, y'all. Did you hear how quickly she said she did not stutter? She did not. Like, I was thinking. No, that was just a straight up no.
I need folks to understand. For some folks, it's just a no.
[00:40:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: Now, me, on the other hand, I, you know, it's been. I'm a flexible. I'm a flexible on it. I do know that I need to not only make money, me and my partner to be making money, and it needs to be stable enough for me to be doing something. Cause one thing my child will not be doing is going to public school. I'm sorry.
[00:40:42] Speaker C: It's not anymore.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: Hello? You gonna tell my child that we signed up for slavery?
[00:40:47] Speaker C: It's just not an option.
[00:40:52] Speaker B: How do you balance feeling, what's happening around you and in the world, with maintaining a positive charge within yourself that is able to basically do your purpose, which you're meant here to do?
[00:41:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I. Great question. Because my empathy is how I became an actor.
I was one of those kids who would watch the news and be inconsolable, you know, like, I think even the past. I think about the past, let's say four years, you know, and the extent to which people are especially, you know, because of social media, I think the extent to which people are horrified at how unjust, violent, disturbing the world is. That's how I've always felt.
Right.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:01] Speaker C: That's how I've always felt.
[00:42:04] Speaker B: And so now. Yeah. How do you balance, like, moving forward when things are so devastating?
[00:42:08] Speaker C: Well, now it's something that I am grateful for because I feel like it is more rare for someone to avoid emotionally, like, you know, bypassing things.
And a lot of people are expressing rage, which is really grief.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:42:33] Speaker C: You know?
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:35] Speaker C: So, one, I just. I rest in the truth that I am grateful for my temperament. I am grateful to be a deep feeler. I would note. I trade that empathy. I would not trade anything for my humanity.
So that's one. It's a kind of, like, ironic comfort, I would say.
And because it's been a lifetime, I have so much self trust and radical self acceptance about it. So if I need to process something, I. I allow myself to process it, you know? And that's always been the case. You know, I was. If I was at my little server job, I'd be crying in the bathroom. I'd be like, oh, that's just. I just need to. I need to do this right now.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:32] Speaker C: And I would go and I would, like.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: I got a schedule. My cries, I can't do that.
[00:43:37] Speaker C: Like, my goodness. But it'd be. It would be that, like, even, you know, there are seasons where there's more expense, there's more time.
So, you know, the ways in which I take care of myself are more involved, and then there's times where, like, it's busier and you just, you know, overwhelmed. And you need to learn yourself enough to know what you need in that moment.
You know, sometimes it's phoning a friend, sometimes it's going for a run. Sometimes it's calling your therapist, sometimes it's leaning on your community. You know, sometimes it's just weeping. Like, it could be any number of things. But, you know, I know myself well enough at this point, obviously, to process things in real time, and I just try to process things in real time.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: I think that that is probably going to be a part of this title of this episode. But also, just like in a busy world, in a world where we got things to do, work to be done, professionalism, all these kind of things, we're so used to putting things off until they're more convenient or a better time. And, you know, one of the things in my favorite lessons in Buddhism is called time and capacity. Because we always say, well, when is the right time? And we always say, now.
But what is different is knowing the capacity of your capacity in the moment as well as the capacity of the environment, but that something can be done now. Um, and so I want to encourage myself and other listeners out there that are hearing this, maybe struggling with the same thing to maybe not put off our processing, put off our healing for a later moment. Sometimes we, you know, that moment may never come, and then we end up blowing up, you know, for different reasons or we end up losing it at different moments. I know I've done that a couple times. So thank you, first of all, Dewanda, for that. I'm, like, letting that come in right now. I'm like, you know what? I really need to start being more graceful for what real time looks like. Real time processing.
But one thing I will say is, I will give other folks this space and say, when it comes to processing other things, it's like in this social media environment with quick takes and gossip and all kind of other things happening, we don't have to be so quick to be in real time with our response. No, you can feel in real time. But we can also be more measured.
[00:46:32] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:33] Speaker B: And more intentional with the output.
[00:46:36] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:37] Speaker B: I think that as we allow things, as we feel things, we can allow them to sort of influence us, educate us, you know, give us context for what we know and how we're going to move and express. But that output, especially as us artists out there, does not have to be rushed. And it's actually even better when it's not.
[00:46:57] Speaker C: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:46:59] Speaker B: You are so amazing. I feel like I could talk to you forever. I just want to keep asking questions, but I'm like, no, girl, you got to do this. It's done. We're talking. We're done.
So what's going on right now? What's next? Where can people get into you right now?
[00:47:18] Speaker C: I think that's so funny. My actual response, I'll give you my pr response after this, but my actual response is, y'all don't need to be into me right now. Be into you.
I always joke that I'm part time famous, and I am okay with that.
You know, saying, I'm like, I don't need to be on your mind all the time. I am a okay about it.
[00:47:46] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:47:47] Speaker C: I love being part time famous. So that's my actual response.
That's my actual response. My pr so out. Wait, I have a show out.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: Oh, okay. What's your PR response? Wait, what's your PR response?
[00:48:03] Speaker C: My PR response is, three women is coming to stars on September 13.
[00:48:07] Speaker B: Three women is coming to stars. We are definitely going to be on that. Okay. Okay. Last question before I go, because I'm doing this thing right now where I kind of redefining celebrity. Yes. In Buddhism, you know, we have this thing is called become a celebrity of the mystic law. And what that means for us is basically, the mystic law tells us that no matter who you are, what kind of circumstance, ability, lack thereof, where you come from, with your gender, you know, whatever mix you got, that we want you to become a celebrity of the mystic law, which means, no matter what it is, that you can create an incredible life.
[00:48:46] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:48:46] Speaker B: And so it means that you become a celebrity of. That means that you are celebrated far and wide because they know your story. As that person who did this thing, what do you want to be celebrated for?
[00:49:06] Speaker C: I want to be celebrated for kindness and for, you know, so much of my intention is healing like yours.
So thank you for having me today.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:49:27] Speaker C: And there's, you know, it's certainly.
Certainly not unique to Hollywood, but there's so much harm.
And more than anything, I want to continue to cultivate spaces of actual safety, true safety, physical, psychological, emotional, mental.
And that is ultimately above and beyond anything else. My legacy.
[00:50:04] Speaker B: Well, I will say that I know that you are doing that. And I can tell because, you know, we haven't even really gotten into the conversation of anything like LGBTQ. We're two black sisters here having a conversation. And what I know is that in this conversation, I have felt safe and there. And that I have to tell you, when I've gone to black women in Hollywood or done, you know, different events, I know who's our. Who is the ally and who's not. And everybody don't feel safe.
[00:50:33] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:50:34] Speaker B: And everybody isn't safe. And so just thank you for being a place without words, without explanation, you know, of being a safe space for me. And I know that if. Hopefully, I believe that if that is true for me, that the people who run into you, you know, the people who be in your environment, find themselves in a safe zone.
[00:51:03] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:51:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So thank you so much for that, y'all. Thank you, Dewanda wise. We will be right back, y'all.
[00:51:12] Speaker A: Thank you again, Dawanda wise, for your wisdom, for your beauty, for your talent, for your graciousness, for your energy. Thank you for being such a safe space to have this conversation with.
Thank you for taking advantage of the opportunities that were put in front of you that made you be able to show up and give your gift to the world in the way that you do. I can't wait to see what you create next. I can't wait to watch your show on stars.
Okay, so before we go, I want to drop another buddhist breadcrumb. Buddhahood is not about living a life that is perfect on top of some mountain meditating.
Buddhahood is being able to show up in everyday life as a Buddha with the compassion, with the humility, with the devotion, and the vow to bring about peace in this world, starting with oneself. That is the life of the Buddha.
So, no matter what you're going through this week, I want you to realize that there is a portal right where you are, out of your current place of suffering.
Just know that even your pain.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: Will.
[00:52:46] Speaker A: Eventually become the medicine that this world has so desperately needed to heal us from our wounded hearts, from our numbness.
I may not be able to use meta to advocate as much as I would like to about all the things that are going on. It just seems like so many people are just committed to being in disagreement, to not seeing the humanity of others, to not hearing some very, very understandable concerns that we all have about our future. Our future.
So I'm just asking that we consider each other is that you try to understand where other people are coming from. Is that you try to listen.
Let's listen to each other a little bit more this week.
No opportunity wasted.
