Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to now. No opportunity wasted. I'm your host, Angelica Ross.
Today is October 7, and today's word from Buddhism. Day by day wisdom for a modern life by Daisaku Ikeda says, quote, if you remain sincere in your interactions with others, you will one day find yourself surrounded by good friends and among those people, your friendships will be as strong and unshakable as towering trees.
Don't be impatient. Work first on developing yourself, and rest assured that an infinite number of wonderful encounters await you in the future. End quote.
I think a key phrase in that quote is if you remain sincere in your interactions with others. I know a lot of us are going through a lot of changes in our friend circles, so I think that this has some good advice. Maybe we can let go of the expectations of how others should show up as friends and focus instead on just us staying sincere on how we show up for others, focusing more on developing ourselves to be better friends to ourselves and to each other. I believe that if we do that, one day you look up and you'll notice you're surrounded by some pretty amazing people.
But on the other hand, if you find yourself being insincere with your interactions with folks who are manipulative or not forthcoming about what your true intentions are, then your environment will inevitably become a reflection of what you're putting out there in pursuit of people liking you. This is very important to pay attention to what you really want out of relationships and your friendships with people, and be willing to align your intentions with your actions and be accountable if you want to be able to count on others.
Speaking of accountability to all my winners and my listeners out there, sorry we did not have an episode last week. I needed to take a little small break.
To be honest. There's just so much going on and I am doing my best to be as transparent as I possibly can about my journey, especially because this podcast is about making the most out of life's opportunities and challenges.
But I've also learned that timing is everything. So rest assured I will continue to share some truly life changing lessons that I've learned from the challenges that I've been dealing with. But I'm just being extremely mindful about the timing, not just about the right time, but more so about allowing me the time to process and to be extremely intentional with the ways that I choose to respond.
Anyway, I had a wonderful weekend up in Ithaca, New York, speaking at Cornell University, and the trip started off a little rocky with me missing my connection flight from JFK to Ithaca, but fortunately I was in good company, you know, I had my hairstylist and my girlfriend with me, and I also had a small breakdown, but I kept it cute. So I also had a therapy session that was originally scheduled for when I was supposed to land. But now that I was stuck in JFK, I was able to take that appointment in the Delta sky lounge. Shout out to Delta, who really took care of me and my crew. Got us all rebooked. We had to be in that Delta lounge for like 7 hours, so everybody knows as well. But, you know, it was.
It happened. I still got to go to my thing, and we got to know each other a little bit. A little bit more. You always get to know people a little bit more when stuff starts to collapse. But overall, it was a great trip, and I got to do a little sightseeing in town. Found this beautiful Black lives Matter mural that was under this bridge. I got to yell free Palestine. You know, as well, I was passing a local protest that was calling for a ceasefire.
And then later that evening, I had a really powerful conversation with the students, the faculty, and the staff at Cornell University.
And I plan to share some highlights from that conversation here on the podcast upcoming episode. But for now, I'll just say, you know, I took the opportunity to address that Cornell is currently in the process of trying to deport one of their students back to Africa for protesting Palestine in this genocide and asking for a ceasefire and divesting from Israel.
What made matters worse was that the black students all communicated to me that they've been upset, and there's been upset, rightfully so, because they were in a meeting with, you know, Cornell University with the students and their parents and basically told them that due to their freedom of speech policies, that a member of the KKK would be allowed to be brought to campus as a speaker.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: But catch it.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: That student does not have access to the free speech that they speak of.
I found it incredibly offensive that Cornell would give more rights to the free speech of the KKK than it would to their own students.
But again, I'm going to go into that more in the next episode. But today I'm sharing my hilarious and heartfelt conversation with Doctor John Paul and Jordan Daniels, hosts of the Black Fat Femme podcast. Take a listen.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: This is like a nice little family reunion.
It's really good to see you both. Jordan and Doctor John Paul from the Black Fat film podcast.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: How are y'all doing right now?
[00:06:25] Speaker B: Since you're welcome, since you're on the.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Now podcast, how are you both doing right now?
[00:06:30] Speaker C: How are you, Joho, how's it going now? I am, you know, I'm here, I'm queer. No, you know, I would say I'm doing really good. I feel like it's been a really interesting week work wise, but I'm feeling really good. I'm so thrilled to be here. Like, I've been listening, I'm listening to the now podcast since it came out. I was listening this morning, and so I just really, like. It means a lot. That means a lot that you're having us on today. Yeah. That makes you feel really affirmed. It's really good and fully affirmed. So now I'm doing great. Thank you.
[00:07:01] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Well, welcome. And Doctor John Paul.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:05] Speaker D: You know, kind of in the same vein. I am also very much so. I know you way before, you know, we go. Go way back. Yeah, we go way back. I mean, what, we're almost ten years deep now. And so it's really cool, kind of, you know, I wouldn't even say full circle. I think it's really cool to see you, for you to have the platform I feel you deserve and to be doing it on your own terms. And it's really, I will say, like, how am I feeling? I also feel very validated in a lot of ways because I feel like we all are, in our own right, kind of telling the media, basically, we're giving the media the finger and basically saying the ways that you want us to show up is not how we want to show up, and we're gonna show up the way we want. And so it's just really cool to be in a place in a space where we. I got. I feel like the people who. What did they say? The girls that get it. Get it. The girls don't, don't, girls. It feels good to be in that space, to be like the girls that get it. Get it, you know?
[00:08:05] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, as, you know, like, you know, we've. We've traversed these streets and, you know, as I've come up and, you know, seen you out there doing your thing, because, you know, one thing I love about you, about both of you, is that the girls are credentialed. I mean, they're, they're not. They're not just, you know, yip yapping and John Scribble scrabbling.
[00:08:29] Speaker D: You, too, girl. You're right, too. I mean, I would have never asked you to be a part of this journey if I didn't feel like you have the range. And I think that's the thing that's really cool, is space with people who, you know, not only get it but have the range. There are a lot of, like you said, angelica, there are a lot of girls who just jump on the mic and gab, but also they're not doing the work. They have not done the work. They're not. They're not wanting to do the work and.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Oh, so. Cause that's the, that's a. Now listen, cuz that's a. That's a big part of it is wanting to do the work. Because here's the situation. I love to watch a transition happen right before my eyes.
[00:09:08] Speaker D: Right.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: You know?
[00:09:09] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Especially as somebody that just gets it in a sense of like, let's listen.
Our audience has built very organically in a way where it's like, listen, I've grown and so I'm not demanding certain things out the gate as I create my things or whatnot. Now, listen, I have a lot of experience doing a lot of different things.
You've seen through watching this podcast. I've even talked about growing in the interview skills and being able to talk, talk to folks and not like, jumping over them in conversation and whatnot. And then I also recently sort of came to terms with my ADHD diagnosis and have been really going down that baby when I tell you I haven't been affirmed in a way that makes the girl feel good. Like, was this Stephanie Mills? Is that Stephanie Mills? I feel good all over.
[00:10:07] Speaker D: Yes. Yes.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: You know, but I feel good about it. And so. Because also it calls out those things of, like, how my brain works and wants to, when I'm in conversation and wants to do that sometimes. So now that I'm managing it, you know, it's. It's even. It's even better. But just like seeing folks who, you know, don't, may not recognize the work that they need to do to get point a to point b. Correct and are not maybe willing to take that work or do that work or take the feedback.
How. So how was it for you? Like, first launching black fat film?
I know you guys have been on for how long now?
[00:10:44] Speaker D: Yeah, we're getting ready to go. Yeah, we're year three, so years.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Oh, so you girls. Wait, what's they call that freshman software? Junior. You girls are junior?
[00:10:54] Speaker C: Yes, my junior year.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Wait, wait. And for the people who are listening right now, because I know both of them, I have been using girl as a gender neutral term.
[00:11:04] Speaker D: Amen.
[00:11:04] Speaker C: Amen.
[00:11:05] Speaker D: Everybody's girl to be.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: I don't care.
[00:11:07] Speaker D: Everybody's gender neutral.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: Girl.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: So just to give that disclaimer yes.
[00:11:16] Speaker D: Everybody's a girl.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Oh, wait, this freaking nat or something in here. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm a buddhist. I don't want to kill you, but I will kill you.
[00:11:29] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: I'm trying to let it live.
[00:11:31] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: The noble truth is suffering so that now has to suffer.
I'm sorry. That's just how it'll go. Like, that's the noble truth.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: Boo, listen.
[00:11:41] Speaker D: Noble truth.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: So talk to me. Talk to me about some of the. Because this podcast, you know, we really focused in on the opportunity and. Because no opportunity wasted.
[00:11:54] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: What I really try to reflect for folks is that with opportunity, baby, comes challenge.
[00:12:03] Speaker D: Amen.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Don't get the opportunity. You don't get the opportunity.
[00:12:06] Speaker D: Right.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Without the challenge of stepping up to that opportunity.
[00:12:11] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: What has the challenges of this opportunity of you developing this platform over three years in a space that sometimes intersectionally, when you're talking about black, fat, and femme, you're talking about voices that have been, you know, traditionally, uh, pushed down and overlooked, you know. So what were some of the challenges developing a podcast centering at those intersections?
[00:12:38] Speaker D: Yeah, I think so. I'll kind of start, because, again, the. The vision really did start with me. And. And Jordan, I'll say, has really been the one that has been kind of in the garden with me. You know, obviously, I brought the seeds and I brought, you know, the stuff, and then Joho is the girl that helped me kind of plan it and start seeing. That's how I look at it. Right. It's a garden for both of us. And what I will say, as you know, when I. When I initially brought the fertilizer and the seeds to Joe Ho and said, girl, this is. This is the opportunity we got. Right. It did become this game of, do we do what everyone else is doing, or do we stay true to the thing we want to do? And I think that's a part of the three years for us. Right. We. I feel. I will say that I feel very strongly in the idea that. That me and Joho have found our. We found our footing. We found the movement of the show. The show is very organic in the sense of it's too, we need to say, friendly now, I would say best friends. We have. There are two best friends who, you know, when I. When I met Joho years ago, it was in a working capacity, and then we developed a friendship outside of that. And now it's really a sisterhood. And when I say sisterhood, it's, you know, Joho will come to me about things. I can go to Joho about anything. I'll even say, joho was one of the first people who got eyes on my book. You know, it's very much that close, that closeness that we have is. I trust Joho a lot. A lot more than I think anyone else in my inner circle now. And so what I say that, when I say of that is that I had to trust that Joho got my vision when I brought it to them. I think that was the biggest thing is finding someone who is really on the ride with you and not just about being on your coattail, but really in the trenches with you. Right. And I think people also. I will say this, and then I'll pass it. I will say, I think people think podcasting is just turning on a microphone, coming up with an idea. A lot of baby. And it's so much writing. It's writing. Yeah. I mean, we share the responsibility of doing our show flows. We share the responsibility of booking people. We share the responsibility of, like, right now, I want to give them credit. Like, the live show that we're doing in October, that was all Joho. Joho coordinated a lot of that. Right. So it's like, we're constantly in this.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: It's good to have a good team partner.
[00:14:52] Speaker D: It's just. It's an amazing team dynamic where it's like, I know the days that I can't show up, Joho's going to show up for me. And I have had days where Joe Ho has literally said, girl, I can't do it. Do you got it? And I'm like, yeah, boo, I got you. You know? And so it's just very much. It's really. It's almost like a marriage, you know? It's very much in the sense of.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: So can I call you Jo ho, too, or is that a family name? I don't. Because I just heard Jo ho. I don't know if I call you Jordan or Joho.
[00:15:18] Speaker C: Yes, girl, please show.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: So, Joho, what attracted you to the whole vision of the black bat film project?
[00:15:28] Speaker C: So as. So as, you know, as John said, we had met in a working capacity before, and I already knew. Like, I mean, you meet John, and you're already like, I'm enamored. This person. This person's gonna be big in my life. And, I mean, when I first met John, I was like, please be my mentor. Please, please be my mentor. Because John just. John was, like, everything that I like, everything that I had, I envisioned. Like, if I actualize, like, the work that I do as a human being, as an adult. I met John when I was in my early twenties, right? And so John is like a big actualization of what that looked like. And so I knew I want John to be. To be in my life. And John and I had, we had both done written work. We had. We had both done, like, speaking work. And so we were always in, like, the same spaces, in same circles about what we did, focusing on blackness, on queerness, on fatness and all, and all the above. And so I think 2021.
John reached out to me because they were working on the work on the podcast with I heart, and John just said, hey, girl, I'm doing the show. I don't know where it may go, but I want you on it. Let me know what you think. And, like, it was an easy thought. Like, I was like, girl, you asked me to be on a show on national network, girl, I'm there, like, less, please.
And, you know, we sat and talked, like, what, what the show be about, John, you know, John knew that. John knew that they want to talk about blackness and fitness and fitness, what the name would be. And we were like, oh, like, black fat family. Like, oh, BFF. Like, what a cute way to be. Like, BFF, where, you know, we, we are your BFF's in the hood and stuff. And so it just came so organically and easy to.
[00:17:05] Speaker D: Easy.
[00:17:05] Speaker C: I think what attracted me to it really was that very seldom do you see shows or teams with people. Like, a lot of people feel like if we have big personalities, then it becomes a challenge to work together.
They exist in conflict, but, like, we exist in, like, harmony. I feel like we thrive so well together, and we, John and I have big personalities, like, individualized people and coming together. I think people may expect that to be, like, our downfall, but it's actually, like, we actually like, it's actually what makes us thrive together.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: Well, let me tell you, there's, there, if you can find the right. Because for me, like, friendships, you know, when it comes to me to, like, good friendships, I can't be with a week. I just listen because I'm listening either. I'm so strong with who I am, what I am, what I do, how I bring it correct. I'm telling you, there's, there's just been folks. There's folks who I don't even, I just always kind of bring this up. There's just folks who I don't even, like, speak to anywhere, but I just, because they're not around anymore in the circles or whatnot. But like, you know, the thing I miss most about them, you know, is how direct we were with each other. Like, just match made. So I never had to worry about that. I offended somebody and they didn't tell me or some, you know, something like that. I mean, not that I would be doing that, but she would actually get me more about my politics and being more around respectability and all these other things or whatever. And mind you, I didn't even think I was really given that all the time. You know what I'm saying? Yes. I pull my Michelle Obama out of my bag, right? And now it's a little bit of Beyonce. Kelly, Roland, point, you know, with the blonde going on. Okay. You know, so I'm pulling a little bit something different. But, like, I'm still.
[00:18:55] Speaker D: You were just saying match who you are.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You know? Absolutely. So it's good. It's really good, because how does. How do you keep each other. How does that flow go? Both, you say you both kind of write it together, but. But how would you describe that flow that you have with each other from episode to episode? Ooh.
[00:19:14] Speaker C: Okay. I would love to take a bite first. So I think, I mean, one, it depends on if it's a solo show or if it's a guest. We have guests on the show every other episode, typically. And so. And as Sean shared, we take responsibility, take terms of who, you know, who do we try to unbook and who might. Who might we know?
In most cases, John knows the folks that. That were bringing on, and John knows them more personally. And I may know them, like, by their work. And so, really, like John and I, we have a group chat with our producer. We text all the time. We text every day in that group chat, we text each other.
What are these do we have for the show? I mean, we're 111 episodes deep right now, which is. Which is a lot of content, right? That's an hour and a half each episode. We're like a hundred, you know, 100 something hours of conversation made both with and without others. And so our flow is that we constantly ask each other the thing. The things in which we are. We are trying to talk about or reach. You know, each person has a really unique perspective that we can pull out also for ourselves. We know that their experiences that we. That we have to go. That we go through as black families, but also, how do we keep it current, right. How we keep it, like, positioned to now? So what do we see in our world in terms of politics, in terms of cultural aspects, in terms, you know, in terms of, like, global, global news and wars. How do we talk about this through, like, through a lens of being BFF's? I think it's also between John and I. We have, like, like, you may come about. You like, like your friend came, your friend came at you a little bit for respectability, politics. I feel like with John, I like, we don't. Like, we can say anything to each other. Like, we, like, sometimes I'll buy, girl, let me, like, what I'm about to say is not gonna be PC. Let me just, like, rough drop to broke out there real quick so I can just say. And then we can figure out how to say it better, you know? And, like, like, we, we have, we have, we have all the space for that. There's no judgment, like, because sometimes, like, to be someone who's mindful, right, it takes a lot of work. And so there are sometimes where you're like, girl, I just need, I just need, like, a person in a space to just, like, be, like, messy. Be a human being, be messy for a moment with. And so, like, you know, when we're messy, we have our moment and then we say, okay, girl, let's pick it up and get this shit done. I mean, I think it works really well for us.
[00:21:28] Speaker D: Yeah. I, to even. To your question, Angelica, I would also say, too, I think there's a level of.
And I think that's what also makes the show so organic is that there's no, I don't even say we don't have a competition. There's no competition clause in our friendship and in our relationship. Right. And so it's not me trying, like, initially when I pitched this to Jordan, it was never. And I, and I've said this and I will, I will literally, until I heart says, okay, I'm pulling the plug. I will never say it's my show because it's not my show. I have said since day one it's our show. And when I say our show, what I mean by that is your thoughts and your opinions and your feelings matter just as much. I don't care that I'm the person that pitched it and landed, landed it to iheart and to Toyota. Fantastic, right? I'm the conduit who was able to help that happen. But I always say black fat femme is not my show. It is our show.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: And so, absolutely, it's a team. And you, you know, when I. I've even learned to do that myself, like, listen, there's a lot that I have done and am doing and continue to do for me to say, this is my damn show.
[00:22:40] Speaker D: Right, right.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: But there is an acknowledgement when I say, you know, there's a lot of times when I even just, again, consciously remind myself to say hour because I'm not doing it by myself. I have people that are helping me. You know, as small as that team might be, it is more than me that is doing that.
Talk to me about, you know, in this current space right now, black, being black fat or film or all of the above. Yeah. And having to, I just, I feel like we're all on social media. I mean, I know that there are the few out there that are not. But when you are talking about doing anything in the entertainment business, you got media and, you know, then you have to have social media.
[00:23:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: How do, first of all, I'll ask you this personally, and then I'll ask you, like, in the broader sense of things, but, you know, how do you maintain your mental health in a space that is so anti black, that is so anti fat, that is so anti femme?
[00:23:54] Speaker D: Yeah. Okay. So again, I'm gonna take every opportunity I can to plug it, you know, so I talk about this in my book, which you can pre order on Amazon. Yeah. Black fat femme. Search that on Amazon. It will come up. But I talk about this, and it's not even just to say, you know, I will say that the show and the book, they kind of were created at the same time. Right. I wrote my proposal and I sold the show at the same time. And so very much there's a lot of interwovenness of that. But what I will say is recognizing that a lot of people don't know how to engage us because they've never had to or giving people the grace. You know, in one of the chapters that I talk about, you know, I specifically talk about the relationship I have with my mother. And me having to give my mother Grace, I had to also recognize, too, like, while I was still mad at her for some of the things that she said and she did to me, there's still that piece that had to recognize. She never, she never experienced a queer baby before. Right, right. She's never had to interact with a queer person before.
And so there's a lot of grace that I give people. Right. So. And I always like to tell people there's a fine line between people who are trying to understand you and walking on eggshells and may mess up versus the people who intentionally want to hurt you and harm you. Those are the people that I don't engage at all. But what I will say is that there are a lot of people who are really. And so that's really what black fat femme is. It's like, come into our world, get a taste, you know? Come to. Come to our dinner party, right, honey? You know, y'all used to going over there to eat with the white folks. Come on over here to these black fat family, the black fat fam space, and actually get a meal, honey, because I know you're hungry.
A lot of Hollywood parties, you're just hungry because everybody's eating hors d'oeuvres and no. Can we cuss, bitch? Grab you a plate. You know what I mean? That's really what our show is, is to grab you a plate, come as you are, and be who you are. And so, like I said, I think there's a lot of, like, even last week's episode, I'm gonna be transparent. If you listen to our last episode, me and Joho, it was a good texture of us going back and forth about, do we let this show out the gate, or is this a show that we need to put behind the Patreon wall? Because, you know, there's a lot of. There. There's just so much that can happen, right, with you. You putting yourself out there. Of course, I say all of that to say. I think there's a lot of me saying, like, I think empathy is really, you know, one thing I will say, and it could be related, may not, if there's anything I've truly learned from working with Joho is to be a more empathetic person, to be a much more considerate person. Because I. And I'm gonna say this, Angela. Cause I feel like we're friends, and we can say that. Me and you, we're good at chopping people's necks off, like our caliber.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: And I don't mean to, but listen.
[00:26:47] Speaker D: But again, you also have to recognize, it's our lived experience, right?
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:26:50] Speaker D: Our lived experience is we gotta protect us because nobody else will.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: And so sometimes you gotta pop out and show ninjas. You know?
Sometimes you do gotta pop out of the show ninja.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:03] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: And you do.
[00:27:04] Speaker D: And so I say that to say, like, I've recognized that there are moments where people have said things. There are people who post things. There are people who try to come for us or say terrible things about what we're doing. And I just go, you know, that ain't. They ain't got nothing to do with us. That has everything to do with the work they need to do. Over there.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:27:22] Speaker D: But all that to be said, I think my biggest thing is just handling it with a lot of empathy, a lot of prayer and a lot of cookie.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: How do you handle it, Joho?
[00:27:31] Speaker C: Well, you know, Angelica, I want to say, I wish I could take a page from your book because I really, really was really inspired by the way in which you, you let people know, hey, I love you. I'm going to unfollow you. I actually don't need that energy, this energy serve in my life. Right. Like, I really appreciate that. And I know, and I know probably people saw. It was like, that is, that is really, like, like, you know, some people were very strange.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: It was some people. I got a lot of love. I got a lot of love. And under, like, because people, I think a lot of people, I got so many messages from people that were saying, I need to unfollow some people that I'm just not, that I'm. That I'm following just for no reason or that, you know, and I'm just following out obligation or, you know, this, that and the third. And, you know, I really had to, because when you are, quote unquote, a celebrity and you. And you have, you end up following a lot of people and making these things and even meeting fans sometimes. And fans like, oh, you follow me? And it's like, sure, but I don't know nothing. That sort of situation. But.
But what I realized is that, and, you know, we can unpack this as well, is that in celebrity culture, I feel like this is an opportunity, as so many things are in and of themselves that we find challenging. And so, like, celebrity culture is, I think, has been a time for us to reflect on who and what we celebrate and why we celebrate them. And what I've realized is that being a black trans woman, I am typically of an identity that is not celebrated.
[00:29:17] Speaker D: Yeah. That's real.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: And so I've tried to use my celebrity as much as possible to kind of, like, share that vibe with the rest of the community, share the love with the rest of the community, make people feel what they feel for candy, what they feel for everyday trans people in their own communities.
[00:29:38] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: But what I found through my experience of becoming famous is that people saw my celebrity as a currency and one that they could use to get to the next big thing.
[00:29:55] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: And so. And they didn't. Many times, there are people who didn't even value me or didn't even care about what I was doing. I was just famous.
[00:30:02] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: You know, it's like being outside, you know, walking past somewhere and somebody's taking a picture with me, and somebody else who doesn't is watching that happen and watching that person be a fan sees that I'm famous and all of a sudden now wants to take a picture, only they don't know who I am, what show I was on. They don't watch none, but they was like, oh, my God, you're famous. Let me take a picture with you. So when I realized that that was kind of the vibe of things and that people that I thought because I was in people's comments, I'm put, when people release songs, I'm blasting it from my car and doing reels, or I'm in the comments of all kind, you know, I was just doing so much.
[00:30:40] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: And then when I realized I wasn't getting that same, you know, energy back, what it came down to was like, okay, cool. No, no, no, wait. This is totally cool. Follow the celebrity profile if you want to totally get it. But I'm going to pull back on all those things right here and really do it in a way where, like, right now I can say, and I'll just say in this space that the people that I am following right now is a strategic situation right now because I'm dropping some seeds and hints about some things that I'm working on.
So that's why that is, you know, that is right now. But, you know, I have Miss Ross, Inc. I have Miss Ross music. I have this podcast between those three accounts and Instagram accounts. On the podcast, we talking about all kind of things from the funny to the serious to, you know, things that people need to know about that they don't know about yet or whatever the case is, the music is music, and not just in a way of me feeling like I'm Deborah Cox of Whitney Houstone and living in my own world. But I'm coming from a place of being an independent musician, making my own things happen from my own studio. And so I have community with other musicians and folks like that, you know, and with Miss Ross, Inc. Is same thing with business and, you know, various things and so on those platforms, because they're not in the same realm as my celebrity profile. I'm able to actually see people that I follow and that follow me and engage. It actually shows me a different experience than what I get on my celebrity profile. So what I end up doing is whatever I do get to see on those profiles, I then send it to my celebrity profile in my DM so that I can share and still use my platform to promote the people that I'm. Yeah, absolutely. But I'm, I'm, like, tricking meta because meta won't let me talk about free Palestine. It won't let me do, you know, certain things. It's kind of limited. So. So I'm trying to outsmart the system and moving that. And that's why, you know, I redirected that. And my, that was one thing for my mental health, you know, that I was able to, because I was able to realize who was there just for the celebrity and who was really willing to follow me and engage still and support if I.
[00:33:00] Speaker D: Go ahead, please.
[00:33:02] Speaker C: I was gonna say, you know, you made, you made a point about no one wanted to celebrate, like, you as a black trans woman and not celebrate black trans identity. And I think all beyond that, like, no one wants to celebrate, but everyone wants to commodify and exploit it. And so I think what you did is such a beautifully intentional way of saying, I actually refuse for you to access my energy in that way. And I'm going to wield my energy the way that I want to wield it in the way that I want to protect my peace. Like, putting your piece is not easy. It is hard. It costs you friendships. It costs you money sometimes. It is expensive in every way and is also worth it to do. And so it's like, when you ask me how I. How I tried to do, how I protect my mental health, I think I also mindful of who the folks I'm following that actually, like, adds to my experience online and also remind myself, like, sometimes everything online, that shit does not matter. Like, there really does not matter. There are things that matters that do matter. And, like, especially as they. As they relate to really real consequences and real, real issues in our world. But there are so many things that happen online that I'm like, this does not matter. And I'd rather focus on how I present my. Present myself in person, because I'm gonna tell you, I get. I get death threats every day. I get death threats for being fat, for being black, for being jewish, for being queer, for being all the above. Like, there's always someone in my dm saying, I hope you die. I can't wait to see you on the street and knock you out. Like, just. Just all these wild things. And there are times where I'm like, wow, does this affect me or scare me? And I think I remind myself one. I know that. I know that around my people who I surround myself with, I'm safe. The people that I have in my life. I know that I'm sitting with them. I know. I know that they'll ride for me. I know that they'll fight for me. Hopefully we don't fight, because I don't believe I'm fighting. I don't believe in fighting, but I do believe in you. In, in, as my dad would say, ending some shit. I know that I will end something real quick.
[00:34:54] Speaker D: Listen, you may start it, but I'm going.
You can start it if you want, but I will end it.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: And you were going to say also, Doctor John Paul?
[00:35:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:07] Speaker D: Oh, I was going to say to both of your points, you know, I think I feel this so much. And I was going to say, because I think people think that that conversation around celebrity is touchy, but it's real. Because what I will say is that there are so many people who think just because you're following folks, or I was gonna. So my point was to, I think, is this chaperone? Is that her name? Chaperone? Okay. The singer, right to her point, this idea of how people think just because they follow you and that they, quote, unquote, support you, that they have access to you. And I wanna say, like, I think that, for me, I had that before the pandemic. I was very much in that mind of, like, oh, I want to be in it with folks. I wanna get to. I wanna be with the dolls. That was where my mind was. I wanna be with the dolls. I wanna be. I wanna be one the girls. And I shake my shoulders that way because that's what it felt like. And then after the pandemic, when the world started opening back up, I started recognizing that so much of this shit is smoke and mirrors, and a lot of us are dealing with a lot of b's that no one wants us to talk about. And even for me, right? I don't. I know I don't have your platform, Angelica. I don't have TS's platform. I don't have Dominique Morgan's platform. There are a lot of girls that I follow that I know and love personally, that I don't have their platform. But a friend of mine, I'll leave them nameless. But, like, something happened with a recent friend of mine who is in the industry and is very famous right now and has a book coming out and has a show coming out and has a very, very popular podcast. And, you know, I caught. I had text her about something randomly yesterday, and she called me in tears, you know, talking about what situation she's currently in. And so that that's the stuff. You know what I mean? That I think people remiss when they. When they don't. When they talk about celebrity. And, I mean, I didn't want this whole conversation to turn into that, but I definitely. I will.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: No, I mean, what we're talking about mental health, because it's all included.
[00:37:05] Speaker D: Yeah, I will say that with the. Even with the notoriety, right. Like, I'll say this, like, people know my show. People know who I am and what I do. And there are some days where I have to tell myself, girl, this person is about to come up to you. Look, I can see it in their face. They're going to come up to me because they follow me on social or because they've seen me on Netflix or they. Or they know the show, or they've seen me on someone else's show. And I have to turn on this energy that I don't oftentimes have, you know? And so I think. I think a lot of people not.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Always wanting to perform.
[00:37:39] Speaker D: Yeah, no, no. I just want to get my groceries.
I'm hungry.
[00:37:44] Speaker C: Facts.
[00:37:44] Speaker D: Leave me alone.
[00:37:45] Speaker C: I'm hungry. But my biggest. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, but my biggest pet peeve is when someone meets. Meets one of us and. And they're like, I feel like. I feel I. You know, like, since, you know, I feel like you and I would be best friends.
[00:37:58] Speaker D: No, no, we would not.
[00:37:59] Speaker C: We would not. I'm so sorry. We actually would not be best friends. I have no idea. Like.
Like I knew John, and I think John, I do great jobs. I think. I think there are folks who present themselves definitely online, they do in person. And I think John, who don't do that.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: I'm glad that I was going to say, I. Knowing you now, knowing you both, but knowing John, Doctor John Pauldenne, for as long as I have, like, I mean, yeah, we can have a certain kiki, you know, behind the scenes, just saying things that, you know, we don't have, but we are still the same person. And what I found, especially when I was, like, in my. Deep in my illness and dating men, well, you know, what I found was that, you know. Cause it was. It was really. It had a strong. It was like a hold on me. Yeah, they had a stronghold on me. But through prayer and lots of chanting. Namiyo ho Renge Kyo, I love that I have been healed, but, yes.
[00:39:01] Speaker C: But.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: You know, during those times, I would meet these men and. Wow. I mean, let me just tell you, first of all, I think obviously baked into probably my experience of dealing with men who probably wouldn't publicly say that they're dating a trans woman.
I hit some very cis, heteronormative marks for folks when I'm ahead just, you know, sitting here washed face with no makeup on and, you know, just root realness with my blonde hair and things like that. You know, basically I've had these, you know, guys who are able to live this sort of double thing. But it went beyond that for me. I would see, like, from their Instagram presence or what they were selling to who they were. It was like Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde and they were subscribing. And I now know so many people who have created online Personas and different things, but that's not who they are.
[00:39:56] Speaker D: No.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: I mean, there's even like, and of course, you've got folks like, you know, remember Joanne, the scammer? And you've got, I think, even other folks who are great, you know, comedian. But because they have made, because how they introduced themselves to us was this Persona.
And then you meet the real person, and then there's this sort of this disconnect for me. I've had, you know, it's not been easy. And I've had some very tough phone calls with friends and people who I've had to say, you know, I do love you and I do support you, but I'm just recognizing that we are not friends in the ways in which you are willing to stand with me in any kind of way. You know, you know, like, I could get arrested here in Georgia for protesting and, you know, standing up and saying all the things and, you know, people, you know, I've been socially lynched, you know, in the sense of, like, having meta, basically, I'm a bona fide quote unquote celebrity. But meta has got it twisted that they think that they control the value of my celebrity through their platform because capitalism and corporations look at those metrics when they are trying to make brand deals and different things. And if you're getting certain engagement and if I'm no longer getting that engagement, if I my accounts being suppressed due to, you know, speaking up for a genocide across the world and all the things, then, you know, and as you know, Valerie Spencer, black trans woman, put me aside. She was like, you know, doing things the way that you're doing them. You're going to make yourself invisible to the community that needs to see you. And so that is why I've had to recalculate and I've had to remove things where it's like I'm still the same person. I'm still saying the same things, but I'm realizing there are limitations that are coded into the fabric of the way things are, not only on meta, but in the policies and the way that we operate things here in America.
[00:42:07] Speaker D: So real. So real.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: So for me, I'm having to, I'm having to stand firm in the ways that I redefine the ways that I engage when we talk about engagement, when we talk about, you know, views and all of that, taking responsibility for all of that. That means that I'm very intentional. That's. That's why I'm having you both into this space, because I'm very intentional about the voices that I want to uplift same. And, and the platforms that I want to share, because this ain't just a one off here. You know, this is not somebody I'm continually invested in seeing your success. You know, there's other things that I can't really talk about right now that I know.
[00:42:45] Speaker D: I know. We know. We're here.
Come out. You know what to do.
[00:42:51] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:42:51] Speaker C: We are here.
[00:42:53] Speaker D: I know. But come October, we're. I'm ready to work, but I got you.
[00:42:57] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, but, you know, in this, in this space where social media co ops terms like friend in a thing, like friend request or in things like following, you know, when, when I had to realize, wait a minute. Is this someone that I need to, should be or even want to follow?
[00:43:29] Speaker D: To follow? Yeah.
[00:43:30] Speaker B: And so how have you, how have you curated your online and offline space to support your mental.
[00:43:43] Speaker D: I will say this. So I was thinking about what you're saying right now about following and thing, and I remember there were years ago when I would follow people and I would mute them so it wouldn't be weird when I met them in person. But now I've gotten to the place that if I feel like I need to mute somebody, then I do a.
[00:44:01] Speaker B: Soft go ahead now. Yeah.
[00:44:02] Speaker D: And I think for me, it's like, if that means I need to mute you, that means that something that you're saying or something you're doing is bothering my spirit and being okay with that. Being okay with the idea that I may run into them on the street at an event and it may be weird. Right. But at the end of the day, that damn meta.
Yeah.
Not everybody's for everybody. And I think that's the thing that I find to be value. You know, value 2024 has taught me that. And I'll say that up front and be very transparent. You know, going into 2024, I had two people that I thought I was going to say friends. And I'm glad I said people because they're not my friends anymore, but I had two people that I was that I thought I was really cool with, out of the blue, randomly say, hey, John, I don't think we can be friends anymore. And it was. It was a lot for me to process. But now going in, you know, we're in the latter part of the year, and also I'm six months out of therapy, I can say, like, I understand that for them, whatever I was radiating, whatever I was doing, whatever I may not have been doing, whatever the case may be, absolutely to them wasn't. They didn't want me as their friend. And that's okay. And I think that's the thing we have to learn, is that I think social media has a way of making us feel like we have to engage everything. We have to engage everyone. And I'll be transparent and saying, there are people who probably feel like I should be more vocal about what's happening over in Palestine. And I. And I've said this, and I will continue to keep saying this. The reason why I keep my fat ass quiet is because I don't feel like I have enough knowledge or enough range to be able to have that conversation. Now, if you want to get in and you want to spar with me around maybe 1955, or you want to talk about, you know, the anti trans bills that are being. I got you. I can jump in.
[00:46:01] Speaker B: Right. But not everybody kind of be in that space of. Because it's okay.
It's okay to say, I don't know.
[00:46:12] Speaker D: It's not even, I don't know. There are a lot people who get it. Who get it and are going to give you the right information. And I am not. And I'm just going to say this. I don't have the energy or I don't have the capacity at this time in my life to do all of the work I need to do to be that informed on that conversation. And that's the real life.
[00:46:33] Speaker B: Right. I'm gonna tell you this, though. One thing that changed my world on this whole thing. I don't know if you've seen it yet, but it's a documentary called Israel.
[00:46:43] Speaker C: I was. I was gonna say I was into your. The part two today of your interview with them. Yeah.
[00:46:50] Speaker B: Because he identified, they identify as trans Alec. Aaron Axelman was one of the co directors. And then the other co director is, you know, this really cute, pretty jewish girl, you know, that seems like she ain't gonna start no problems, you know? And she is causing the system down. She is out here wreaking havoc with this documentary, and not in all the best ways, because I know what you. What you're seeing is jewish people who are being kind of ripped apart and put back together again because the lies that they've been told about their. About history and all these things that having. That ripped away, but then being reunited with their humanity, that sees the humanity in other people that doesn't create these narratives of children of darkness and, you know, all these different things that kind of happen. So, you know, for me, it was always very complicated, and I did not never. I never knew enough.
And then when it clicked, it clicked. When it clicked, it clicked. And that's why I bend the way that I've been. Cause it fucking clicked. Like, click, click. But, like, it clicked, like, oh, I got it.
[00:48:05] Speaker D: But what I will say, what I will say, and it's not that I'm being intentionally obtuse about it. What I'm saying is it's not that I don't. Me and Joho have had these conversations, and there are things that Joho continues to keep walking me through about me fully being able to understand. My thing has been. Not everybody needs to be on the platform taking up space, talking about it, right? So my biggest thing is this. I want all of us free, and we are. And I'm going to be free, and that's going to get us free, right?
[00:48:40] Speaker B: And it's really standing on saying that I want us all to. All of us to be freedom and liberty.
[00:48:46] Speaker D: However, it's the same way that I get a little perturbed when cisgender, you know, non queer people, try to speak up for queer people. It's like, yo, that's a privilege.
[00:48:57] Speaker C: Right?
[00:48:58] Speaker D: And so that is a part of my privilege to say, I got the black struggle right here. I'm gonna go ahead and go speak about the black struggle. I can. I can also talk about what's happening over there in Palestine, too. But my thing is, is that I don't want to take away from my palestinian brothers, sisters, ladies and everyone, you know, I think.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: But you know what? I think a way to not take away is. Is a way. And this is where I think. I think this, like, is work that I think all of us at all the intersections can do in order to rise all ties.
I think it's to find the connection. Amen. So that it's not about me. Talking on your behalf. It's about understanding that connected. Yeah. And, and here in America, I'm trying to pay for my student loans. I'm trying to pay for housing that is continually inflating or, you know, whatever. I am trying to continue to find work in a environment that is rolling back dei protections that are, that are rolling, that are making it hard to fund minority businesses with, you know, the Supreme Court cracking down on things like the fearless fund, you know, being people who work and educate and consult and educate and corporate spaces on equity and inclusion and being in this environment when those things are being pulled back, having our bodily autonomy taken away from us, not having, you know, money for the basic rights and things in healthcare here. And then you're telling me that all the money and taxes that I pay are going to another bitch household somewhere else outside this country. Like, it's like I was telling people, I was like, it literally is like being in a relationship with a husband who keeps telling you I ain't got the money for the mortgage or for the college of the Kids college tuition or for groceries, but is sending another bitch overseas a bunch of money because she's showing.
[00:51:01] Speaker C: Her.
[00:51:02] Speaker B: She's showing.
[00:51:07] Speaker D: Yes, yes, but I know, I, but you understand.
I get it.
[00:51:14] Speaker B: So I'm saying just understanding the connection of what is allowed not only on those children over there, but on our children on those college campuses who were trying to use their right to protest, you know, which, again, is being taken away in a couple states. Here in the United states, you have cop cities being built and who are being trained by the IDF. So some of the toxic chemicals that we've seen introduced lately into some of the protests and things like that are coming from those strategies. So it's just like finding the way you can almost find a way to talk about those things without talking about, without being a spokesperson for those causes is saying that I want to live in a world right where these things, you know, instead of us spending money on war and on bombs and on things that we spend money on community solutions, on not having to have women and children, you know, working in the most worst conditions so that we can have the best technology, you know, so it's, you know, and I get, I, you know, here I be, you know, on my things and on my things. But, Joho, I think is very interesting. How have you as sitting in the intersections that you've been sitting in, how have you been dealing, especially with your mental health and also having a platform, but also finding your place insane or not saying you know, with your identity, like, how have you been dealing in this space?
[00:52:45] Speaker C: Okay, so this is. Ooh, Angelica, you asked me a question that I've been, like, thinking about for a long time. I mean, for a long, long time, since October 7 before to 7th. Because my work that I do, nine to five, focuses on Jews of color. And so the work that I do focuses on helping resources support Jews of color around. Around the US. And so, I mean, like, just, you know, just to be more direct to October 7 and what's happy in Palestine, Gaza, it affects Jews of color way differently than it affects white jewish folks and also differently than it affects a non jewish people color as well, too, because there is an intersection of Jesus color who, you know, who, who some are who are anti Zionists and some who are Zionists. And it's an interesting thing to work in that space and to be like, wow. Like, like, my work is actually. My work. My work is actually to hold both. To hold both of these folks here because my work is to support them and, you know, and, and resource them and the work they do. The work that they do, also the work that we do in fund focuses on the color that supports a color. And so it's interesting for me to have to, like, in my, in my. I have to actually decenter myself, which, which is also, I think. I think is a really important lesson. Right. Like, I actually have, have to decenter myself because my, because my. The way I articulate my lens of liberation in my job is saying, like, my job is for you to feel free to do whatever you want, no matter where I agree with it or not. It's to wherever you want. Because. Because that is what freedom looks like. Like, as a jewish person of color in, in this country. And then how I show up in my personal life is different. You know, like, I think also, one thing I think about a lot is, and I think your question about how to I, you know, what. What do I curate on, you know, on my timeline? Such, I think I once run myself with people who carry, like, I show myself. I surround myself with people who are. I follow people who really represent many different perspectives and perspectives and fragments on liberation, on Zionism. On anti Zionism. Right. I will never. I will never follow. I will most likely never follow like a racist republican, never follow that type of person. But I think there are very real folks who do very real libertary work in this way and then don't do it in this way. And so to me, it's my duty to sit and understand them, because then when I show up at the protests, when I show up, when we meet meeting meetings between jewish and arab folks here in San Diego, I'm better able to talk about it. I'm better able to show up and be an actual advocate and accomplice in the work. I've really done away with the idea of allyship, and I've gotten that from John. Allyship is no longer important to me. And so when it comes to idea of curing my online space, I don't want curious Facebook with allies. Allies are the people who will say, opposed to black squidgest. I'll post a blue square. I'll share, like, you know, I'll show this little thing. The advocates are ones who are say, you know, I will, I will hold your hand at the march. I'll march with you. But the accomplices are ones who are saying, I will actually go in front of you at the protest, and I will, I will take the bullet out of the head. Like, I'll get arrested and you. And I think, you know, John made a point about my empathy. My empathy that I think that I bring in isn't. I don't always expect people to be accomplice. I understand that it is dangerous to do that.
[00:56:05] Speaker B: Everybody has the capacity.
[00:56:06] Speaker C: Exactly. I know I put my life online just walking in my, you know, in my ear sometimes. And I also know that, like, as a, like, as a light skinned Bob person and as a tall, fat person, like, most likely no one's gonna work with me. No one's gonna try to attack me on the streets because, like, I, like, I am a big, tall dude who's also light skinned. So I know. So how can I win my privilege in that way? Right? So I know I'm willing to put my life online. In some ways. I don't expect everyone to do that for me, but I do expect a level of advocacy, like, right? Like, hold my hand, be with me there. And so I curate my time. I'm only having people who do that. And that's also how I manage my intersections. I think also to be queer at this time is interesting, too, because there are so many queer folks and there's so many queer jewish folks. Like, there are so many queer jewish folks as well, who are also grappling, right. Who are grappling with Gaza, grappling with Israel themselves as well, too. And I feel like the queer, I.
[00:56:56] Speaker B: Feel like the queer is the queer folks that are really also shaking the table the most.
[00:57:01] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:57:02] Speaker B: You know, I think that they've been, I think, for the longest time, whether it's been creating change or different, you know, conferences that we've been over the past decade, I think a lot of queer people have been in this intersectional conversation, for sure.
[00:57:13] Speaker C: And it's the queer gen Z. It's the queer Gen Z folks. Like these kids, legit these kids. And I'll be clear. Like, I think. I think also, like the queer millennials, queer Gen Xers and queer. And, you know, queer elders are ones who have led the work of the Gen Z folks, ones that picked up. Picked up these tools for tools to fight. And they are. They are. They're shipping the table. They're. They're saying, fuck the table. They're building a new table. And so I think I also surround myself with people who are. Who are doing. Who are doing that work night. And I. And I take directive, right? Like, I think also to a point of, you know, I may not be able to speak in some ways, in ways I want to because of what I do, but I can still take directive of where, you know, where do I send my money. I'm also learning to, as a point of decentral myself, to take directives, right? So it's like, while I'm able to say the things I want to say and because of what I do, I also know, like, let me know who to follow to where, you know, where to send money to. Where can I send resources to? How can I check in with people who are checking, people who are on the ground, right, who are actually experiencing in Gaza, who experienced this in West bank, her experiences in Jerusalem? How do I check them and say, hey, how can I help you right now? Like, as you are doing, doing the work yourself? And that's been really, really special for me because I know that that's where I can find, like, my best lens of advocacy and, you know, and accomplish it isn't doing that work.
[00:58:31] Speaker B: I love. I love what you, you know, sort of the separation, too, that you talked about, like, decentering yourself and, you know, affirming that you can, this is a free world, and in a free world that I believe in, you know, you can believe and you can, you know, do whatever you want with your life because, you know, I saw some stuff recently, too. I've been seeing some broken clocks on the Internet. One of the broken clocks I referred to is Candace Owens.
You know, she is one of those broken clocks that is right about twice.
You know, I won't say a day because that's a little bit too much.
[00:59:21] Speaker D: I would say every. Annually. She's right.
Annually.
[00:59:29] Speaker B: And so, you know, because there, you know, she would just sometimes, like when. With the thing, when gods or something like that, she would say something just about the chill, like, she would say something specific, you know, about children should be bombed because of this and that. It was like a basic thing, and it's like, okay, so I'm here agreeing with Candace Owens. Okay, cool. Um, but, you know, then I saw an interview that Candace Owens did with, uh, I think it was Ray J and Danielle. It was a trans woman. Um, I think she's a Latinx trans woman, um, but kind of white passing thing. And I think she's actually dating LeBron. I mean, not LeBron J. I was like, LeBron J was Kourtney Kardashian. I mean, not Kourtney.
[01:00:12] Speaker A: Yeah, Kourtney Kardashian's ex husband.
[01:00:13] Speaker D: His ex.
[01:00:14] Speaker B: Yeah, her ex.
[01:00:16] Speaker D: Her ex. Lamar.
[01:00:17] Speaker B: Lamar. Yeah, Lamar. Yes.
I saw an interview of Candace Owens interviewing Ray J and this trans woman talk about trans stuff and just really being quite disrespectful, obviously, as Candace Owens does, and is saying, you know, well, I don't think it's disrespectful to say this and say that and say this and say that.
You know, I think that.
[01:00:43] Speaker A: I think that we should be careful.
[01:00:45] Speaker B: With our words and what we say and do. However, I don't know where this lesson needs to be taught. I don't know if it needs to be taught in grade school. I don't know if it needs to be taught on a playground.
I don't know if it needs to be taught just as an adult. And you understand the responsibilities of being an adult and take a responsibility for your actions, but this is what I feel. You want to call trans women men, baby, go right ahead.
You want to call trans men women and this, that and deranged and sick and, you know, maybe go at it. Have you get. Because what I think I need folks who were laughing at some of Dave Chappelle's jokes to realize is that eventually you're going to look up and you're going to be surrounded by people that you don't want to be surrounded by, that you find out that you don't actually agree with all the bigotry and hatred and negativity and xenophobia and all the other things that people subscribe to, but because you want to hold on to this privilege of being able to oppress or make jokes about or, you know, call people out of their names or treat women a certain way or what have you. Because, again, there are circles of men who are affirmed in treating women the way they treat women and continue to do so, and they're celebrated and celebrities and what have you, you know, they can continue to do that. But then you've seen a lot of stories come up lately about the mental health of men lately who are not having sex as much, who are not in relationships as much, because the women have said, it's not given what I needed to give.
So I think that the consequence or the. In Buddhism, we focus on cause and effect. So it's basically, we say, if you do this, this could, might, or will happen.
Cause and effect. And so I know that's a dangerous place to be because, you know, it's like a place of almost same and affirming people to be mean and do whatever they want to do do. But I think that I don't know if there's some natural order to that. You know, a natural order to people getting tired of being around certain things and wanting to grow out of that. You know, one of the things that I'm going to be in my winner's circle group that I do, and sort of just with my buddhist practice, you know, every week, I'm just getting into.
[01:03:25] Speaker A: This place where I'm like, okay, okay, I get it. Okay.
[01:03:28] Speaker B: So whatever I'm studying in my buddhist thing, that's great for me and my buddhist group, but also there's these, like, seeds and elements that are very valuable and, I think, needed for the greater population.
And so, you know, one of those things that we're talking about is just that there.
That there is no good in isolation of evil. And just saying that, you know, it's. It's kind of the Yang and yang of life, but that, you know, it's the call of all of us, I think, in all the work and the different ways that we do things.
[01:04:08] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:04:08] Speaker B: To whether it's fat phobia, whether it's fem phobia, whether it's transphobia, whether it's racism, all of the different things that might be seeds of evil or spin offs of evil doings or behavior or thoughts that evil, their evil does. There is no good in isolation of evil, but it's so much so that evil can be turned into good. But what they say is that, like, if we just allow evil things, people thoughts, to just run their course, like, like x, like twitter, just free for all.
[01:04:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:04:51] Speaker B: Those things are not going to just automatically magically turn into good will and good things.
[01:04:56] Speaker D: Right?
[01:04:57] Speaker B: It's only by the yin and yang happening of those things coming out or doing, and then people being willing to challenge that evil, right? And to challenge those notions and to help people change and evolve past those things and therefore transmitting that evil into good, you know? But it's like, I think that that can be done in so many different ways. And I think that's where sometimes we get lost in the work and what the work looks like. You know, what the response looks like when you are black, fat film or trans or any of the above.
Sometimes the revolution is just being willing to not only walk out your front door as you are, but to then actually amplify yourself, your platform, your voice, or anything like that. How they you did you, did you expect the response of your pre orders so quickly? Like, I've been seeing just like, automatically, like, you're in. You're in the top numbers. Like, I shared it, but I can't remember. I can't remember, like, what was share with the people.
[01:06:11] Speaker D: Damn. Oh, gosh. I struck a chord and I got emotional about it. I have not gotten emotional about any of this. It's so weird. No, I honestly don't. I never expected any of this, to be honest. You know, when I saw. When I started doing this in 2014, when I see starting to do this right, it was this. I want to make a name for myself. I want. I want folks to know my story, or I want folks to be able to see a black, fat, femme person, like, winning, because that's where this came from. It came from.
It came from me working in education, feeling so silenced in a lot of ways, and meeting students and meeting youth and meeting people who were looking at me and saying, I wish I would have had you when I was this age, or I wish I would have had your story when I was that age, or I wish I would have known you two or three years ago. That would have helped me, you know, trigger warning. That would have helped. Helped me not have had my second or third, you know, suicide attempt. Right? Like, those were the stories that I was getting in 20 12, 20 13, 20 14. And so when I started kind of branding, you know, doctor John Paul as a brand, and I hate saying it that way. That's the only way we can really talk about it, right?
[01:07:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. Because you're talking about you meeting capitalism and having to, like, use those means to amplify what you're doing to, like. It's.
[01:07:37] Speaker D: Yes. Yeah. And so. And it's gross, right? It is really gross. And I know people, you know, shout out to Doctor Jen Jackson, who has said, I'm not interested in following brands, I'm not interested in. I respect that. But what I'm saying is when I, when I.
[01:07:50] Speaker B: You are also somebody, like you said, who is not very different from, yeah, you're the same on and off.
[01:07:58] Speaker D: Right, right. And so I was really just trying to say, I want to be a voice and I want people to be able to know what that voice is and where that voice is coming, coming from. And so I'm going to share my stories authentically. So that way, and we're just going to call it Doctor John. When people say Doctor John Paul, I want people to know that that is a storyteller who is speaking their truth and their way.
That was literally what that was. And so then when all of the stuff started taking off, and I'll say, like, even 2017, 2018, when people were calling me in to do speaking engagements and when I was, you know, keynoting the biggest keynote I've ever done was a 15,000 people conference. Right. I never thought that I would be in, you know, I forget what city I was in.
[01:08:45] Speaker B: I think I was actually, like, moderating conversations with me on stage.
[01:08:50] Speaker D: Moderating, right. I'm looking at celebrities who know my name. Like, I, I'll never forget, like, one of my, one of my moments where I was like, this shit is real. Like, I walked into a room and Abraffan knew who I was.
[01:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:09:03] Speaker D: She was like, doctor Jean Paul, it's so good to see you. And I just like, this woman that I watch, that I love knows who I am, right, TS Madison is addressing me, right? Like, there have been moments in the last year or two that have been so affirming. Me and TS Madison being seatmates in first class together. Like, come on now, isn't that lovely.
[01:09:28] Speaker B: Affirmation from the universe, right?
[01:09:29] Speaker D: Like looking around, being like, in the same space flying and she's sitting a row over from me in first class. Right? And we're going to the same place we're going to.
[01:09:39] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And so, you know, I think it's like a reflection though, too, because I'm sure that, I mean, maybe she's gotten used to it by now, but I think that, you know, I've heard t's bastard many times talk in the same way of, like, knowing that she comes from certain places and is saying, bitch, I'm sitting up here in first class with you too, Doctor John Paul.
[01:10:00] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:10:01] Speaker C: Love you, girl.
[01:10:01] Speaker D: But yes, I'm saying. And the love is real. She texts me. We have conversations. We kiki when we're in spaces together. And so it's nice. But I say all of that to say, you know, I think for me, you know, when you ask that I, did I drink? Did I, did I ever envision this? Yes and no. I want to say yes and no. Part of me that knew it was going to be hard, that knew that it would also be hard to bring people on. And that's the thing. I constantly keep trying to tell people that this shit is not just for me. I'm not doing this for me. You know, my team, most of my team is black, you know, black and queer in some capacity, right? My agent is a black queer woman. You know, my podcast host, the person who edits my podcast is black and queer. Like, I'm always trying to put someone else on with. With the platform I get. And that's gonna be, that's just who I am through and through. I'm gonna always look out for my people. But I definitely will say, I think for me, that the biggest, you know, when you. When you ask about the book, and I'm really doing my best not to, like, ball right now. I don't know why I'm so emotional about it.
It is just.
It's something that really, really, really, like, it's just affirming. That's really the only word I've done. The word thank you.
[01:11:13] Speaker B: That's the other thing is as someone who I've written my book, I have not published it or released it, and I think I'm even going through it, and I had a situation with audible and that just changed. But, yes, but, you know, and I'm into the now stage of kind of like, since I've had the time of refreshing it so that when it, you know, now that I've had some time since, you know, the first manuscript that I'm able to, you know, re up it and just doing that work, organizing, editing, and obviously just writing the whole thing, but also, you know, just your studies, your lived experience, all the things and put. That's why it's having the response, I think that it is, is because so many people are seeing a book that has been needed, that has been missing in the market. Like, you just don't see a lot of things like this hitting those intersections. Like, even when I see, like, folks like feminista Jones, you know, for instance, like, she has her book reclaiming our spaces and, you know, realizing when I read the book that I'm one of the people amongst bill hooks and whatever that she's talking about and referencing. It's like you, you don't always have these folks and voices that are amplified who are speaking intersectionally like this. You have folks who are preaching the cis, especially in black spaces. You have folks that are preaching cis heteronormativity. Before I let you go, what was it like on the, was it essence fest that you were just.
[01:12:53] Speaker D: Essence fest? Yeah.
[01:12:54] Speaker B: What was like, what was it like being on the essence fest space and being in that space? Because I know that, like, even I, essence fest and that space has continually been trying to do work at making that space more inclusive. And we know there's many people that we are allies with and that are there, but we know that maybe structurally they haven't always been ready for our, us on the main stage.
[01:13:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I, essence fest, it was fun. But it's also still very much, it's still very cis. It's very cish head.
And so, yes. So it's always interesting to see how people take you in when they see you and your authenticity. And you walk into a room and you like, hey, girl.
It's always interesting. But what I will say is what's been really affirming, what continues to be affirming is the moments when someone, so I'll say this. So I actually, while I was out there, I went out to lunch.
I was getting something to eat with someone who was in the program I was in with. And again, someone came up to me and they were like, oh, Doctor John Paul, I know you are. And I follow you on social. It was so nice to see you. It was another queer baby. But it was one of those moments of, like, you could just tell they were just grateful to be at essence fest and to see me there. It wasn't even about the celebrity. It wasn't even about the, and I feel that all the time. I feel that so much when you go into a space and you can just tell that someone is just so thankful that someone like you is there. And I think that's the, that's the reason why I'm so grateful for black fat femme. That's why I'm so grateful for the book. I'm so grateful for my friendship with Joho.
We're going into spaces and we're reminding people that it's okay for them to be who they are in a world that is still, and that's what I think baffles me more than anything. We're in 2024, baby, and we are still living like it's 1952, Nick.
[01:14:59] Speaker B: Well, and we use that we word lightly because we really mean some of y'all.
We still live in our lives.
You know that prophecy some of y'all spoke over the lives of gay people that you're only gonna be. Listen, some of us, we living pretty well.
[01:15:16] Speaker D: It's all right. My bills are paid.
Yeah, I am paid and my bills are paid. I will say that. But what I'm saying is, I look around and I'm like this, this antiquated old ass thought process around identity and experience and lived experience is so. It's like, let it go, girl. We got to let it go. But I say all of that to say, you know, it just. I think that's what essence fest did for me, was that it's those little moments. It's not even about, like I said, it's, it's really not about the stage. It's not about being in the room with, you know, oh, I'm an influencer. I'm doing that now. All of that can go out the door for me. It's those moments where somebody sees me and I see them and I even talk. Like I said, there's a moment in my book where I write about that. There was an experience me and my partner had at Disneyland a couple of years ago. A little kid. I could see his face light up when he saw me and my partner together. He, like, looked at us and he smiled. Little black boy. And I hope that story, and I hope that that energy and that, that experience in that moment, it lives in my head, because I think to myself, if I had that when I was six or seven, right, if I, if I had that at twelve or 13, I probably wouldn't, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now, right? And I love what I'm doing. But what I'm saying is, like, I think it's, it, it's just I dream of when I set out to do this, my dream has always been to make someone else's life easier. And I'm so grateful that me and Joho can do that every week.
[01:16:42] Speaker B: Well, you do. And it's just such an organic back and forth between you two on the podcast. I love the podcast before we go, with no opportunity wasted and now, and just the concept that we've been talking about, whether it's from mental health to sort of being your own sort of cheerleader or what have you, for the folks that are listening right now that might be struggling with the challenges of being black in America or being femme in America or being fat in America in a space that is anti all of things. And they're in right now.
They need something right now in this moment to feel something different, to improve, whether it's improve their mental health. Hear something, hear some different words. What would you give folks in this moment to say, this is what you can do right now?
[01:17:43] Speaker C: I have a few answers. That's okay. And also in the spirit of now, no opportunity, we also want to take a moment to also, like, like, clarify, clarify my earlier statement as well, too. Like, yes, you asked me about, you know, curing. Because I will be really clear in saying that when I say, like, to decenter myself, I don't mean it through a lens. Like, I don't mean it through a lens of being dispassionate. I don't mean it through a lens of, like, like, of neutrality. Like, I really care. Like, it's not through a lens of neutrality. It's, it's, it's really through a lens of knowing the best ways in which you can show up and then will show up excellently. Because I think I want to be clear. There are times where people, if I, if I can't show up in my fullest self, then, then I won't be able to actually do the work that I want to do and help the help that I want to help. And so I, I want, I want, I want to be clear on that of, like, be really being the ways in which you show up. And I really think a lot about when we had you on our show, Angelica, the idea of I can love you by I can love you but I don't trust you. And like having this remind to say I love you and I said, and I, and I'm in. And I'm here for you in Inda and I will fight for your freedom, but I don't trust you to fight for mine. I have a discernment of the ways in which I actually can find the people who fight with me for that. So I want, I want to take a moment to say that I think what comes for people advice I could give. One thing I'm working on with my coach right now, I've been seeing this coach for work is recognizing that we, like, like, we shrink ourselves to not be seen, but people already see us.
People, as soon as we leave out, like for me as a BF, as a black fat famous, a new BFF who rocks nails, who wears heels sometimes, who's fluid presentation, the world sees me the second I step out of my house. If so, actually, I actually should not be afraid of being seen because I meant to be seen. And so for, you know, for BFF's, for black folks, queer folks, and all the intersection of all between, if you're worrying about being significant, if you're a state that has policies that makes you feel safe to be seen, know that you're meant to be seen. And I mean, if you're anywhere you meant to be seen, I want, obviously, for the folks who live in states where it's dangerous, you know, let's. Let's together find the ways in which you can be seen, because you are meant to be seen, too. If you're meant to be seen, you meant to be held. You're meant. You're meant to be protected. Um, we are such incredible, beautiful and divine people. I know. We talked about that as well when you're on our show, too. Like, we're all innately as queer folks, as trans folks, divine people. We are like, not just images of the divine, but we are pieces of the divine itself. And so we have an obligation to ourselves and to the higher power within us to make ours, to make ourselves seen in every possible way. And no one can take any. No one can take that from you at all. Absolutely.
[01:20:30] Speaker D: Who? My sister. My sister. She does it every time. I'm so grateful.
[01:20:35] Speaker B: I love the fact that because you're right, like you said, like, you know, even myself place my doggies.
I like what you, you know, you said just about, you know, when you step outside your house, there's so many times that. I mean, yes, okay, you know, there's the fame thing, but also, like, you know, there's just been many times I walk out my house and I'm trying to be incognito, you know, I'm not trying. I'm not.
I'm just a regular black person just following through here. Don't mind me. No, don't pay me no mind.
Listen. And I know, like, some, you know, but the reality is, is that I was created, you know, to be seen in a way. And I am Angelica Ross, you know? And I finally appeared to that understanding. But just what I mean by that is, like, imagine having the confidence every day to hold your head up high, to smart, to not hide behind sunglasses or, you know, whatever else. To not hide from the glare of people on the bus or the bus stop or at the kitchen, at the counters or whatever the case is. And I know a lot of trans people, a lot of queer people have to deal with the anxiety of how people are going to take them in. Right, like you talked about before. But I think in this moment, I'll give this, and before I pass it to you, you, doctor. Doctor, that I think maybe that's an opportunity. And it can be very, very challenging for everybody. But it is an opportunity to worry less about how people are going to take you in, to being as intentional as you can about influencing your environment with whatever special fragrance, light, energy, vibe that you have. Let that be undeniable, let that be unmutable in spite of the challenges, you know, and again, I know everybody needs to stay safe as possible as you can out there. But, you know, I also know that with the challenge of being who we are comes this sort of courage. And it's a courage that I think even inspires the bully, inspires a person who's not showing up authentically to their lives every day. So our courage to overcome our challenges, I think can be inspiring just in itself of just being ourselves. Doctor John Paul, what you got for.
[01:23:18] Speaker D: The folks you know?
So I, in the acknowledgments of my book, I allude to thanking Beyonce for the song bigger. But I also wanted to say that I think the song we didn't give enough to is be alive. And I think if you, if you really.
I'm really trying not to cry right now.
[01:23:46] Speaker A: Don't try.
[01:23:46] Speaker B: Don't you.
[01:23:47] Speaker D: Do you like. I. It's weird because I, I had liked that song and I, and I felt the message in that song, but something just in the last couple of weeks, I revisited that song and it is so powerful to me because it's like you, you just hear it. There's a message in that song that I don't think we, we were ready for. And I. And so, and I share that knowing that a lot of people have a lot of problems with Beyonce. But I will say the one thing about that song for me is there are lyrics in that song where she's basically saying, this is hustle personified.
And it's like, I know what you've gone through, Angelica, to become Angelica Ross, baby.
I know what Doctor John Paul went through to become Doctor John Paul. I knew. I know. I've known what Joho has gone through to become the co host of the Black Fat Femme podcast. Right? So it's like we all know each other's struggles and oftentimes we think we're in it by ourselves and we think that we're struggling and, oh, the life is hard. And it is. It is very hard. But, but there's this moment where you're gonna, like, if you. And I'm having to tell myself this a lot because, like, how do. Today has been a good day. I'm gonna just give it. I'm gonna say the last couple of days, the last couple of weeks, actually have just been like, what is this? What's going on? I don't really understand, God, what has happened? And then today, just a whole bunch of, like, good stuff just kind of just started coming. And I'm like, I'm doing it, you know? And that's the thing I want people to hear. It has nothing to do with just me. It's. We're doing this. And what you might do to put yourself out there could and will inspire someone else to live. And so when I see. And I say this all the time, when I see t's win, I win. When I see Angelica win, I win. When I see dominique win, I win. When I see a black, non binary person win an award for something, I win. Right? Because we're showing up in our authentic selves in a way, in a world and in an industry. I say even in industry, because all of this is entertainment. We're showing up in entertainment in ways that folks don't want us to show up. Right? I can actively say there. I know for a fact there have been people who have told me, if you were more silent about white violence, if you were more silent about queer this or queer that, if you were more silent about that, then maybe you might get hired for a show, right? I've had people pull me to the side and say, yeah, you probably were passed over because you made that comment about a white exec. Right?
[01:26:32] Speaker C: And.
[01:26:32] Speaker D: And now that I think about it, I'm looking around and I'm going, I'm still winning.
[01:26:36] Speaker B: Absolutely, baby.
[01:26:38] Speaker D: Speaking my truth the way I want to.
[01:26:40] Speaker B: I don't want to be in a room. Let me tell you something I've learned sometimes. I've learned to. I've learned to do a dog whistle.
[01:26:47] Speaker D: Hello.
[01:26:48] Speaker B: Let me go.
Yeah, I want the. I want the hit dog to holler.
[01:26:52] Speaker D: Holler. Please.
[01:26:53] Speaker B: Please. I don't want to. I do not want to be after this year.
[01:26:57] Speaker D: And I'm the same way, Angelica. After this year, I'm looking around and I'm going, I don't want to be in any rooms with people who want me to silence, to dim my light, to dim myself down, because they want to feel superior. And I think about, who was it? I could see her face, but I can't say her name, because I'm not good with names.
She's a writer, a very, very famous queer writer. But she said, if the only time that you feel tall is if I'm at my knees, then that's, that's a problem. And I forget what her name is.
[01:27:28] Speaker B: But I think I. Raquel Willis.
[01:27:30] Speaker D: No, it's a, she passed away a couple of years ago, and I can't think of her name. She had black and white hair and they were in it. I think they were in locks. What was her name? I want to speak her name. And she, I think she was queer, too.
[01:27:44] Speaker C: I feel like, I feel like I know who it is.
[01:27:47] Speaker D: You know who I, I'm talking about. But anyway.
[01:27:49] Speaker C: Tony Morrison. Tony Morrison.
[01:27:51] Speaker D: That's it. Toni Morrison. Thank you. I remember seeing a clip for her from her. She was being interviewed and someone said that, that if the only time you feel powerful is when you're, when I'm at my knees, then it says more about you than it says about me. And I think about that often. If somebody has to, has to make me feel small in order for them to feel big. We don't need to be in the same room. We really don't.
[01:28:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:28:12] Speaker D: And that, that's, that's the message that I have now is we've got to stop selling ourselves short and making ourselves small for other people to feel big.
[01:28:20] Speaker B: Listen, so, yes, I think we're going to name this episode unapologetically black.
[01:28:25] Speaker D: I know. That's right.
[01:28:26] Speaker C: Oh, yes.
[01:28:27] Speaker B: Yes. With Doctor John Paul and Joe Ho.
Thank you so much for this conversation and just kind of being very transparent about, you know, just the mental health of it all and giving some really good advice. And congratulations on three years on the podcast. Congratulations on a already successful book. I'm going to go preorder my copy, y'all. If y'all have not pre ordered your copy, get your copy right now.
[01:28:56] Speaker A: Black fat film.
[01:28:57] Speaker D: Get your copy. Get your copy here.
[01:29:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, so before we go, what can the people expect in reading the book?
[01:29:05] Speaker D: Yeah, so the, like I said, tangent. Like I said, I wrote a, initially, I wrote the proposal and then sold it as a podcast first.
So it was kind of working backwards, but it really is, it's a tie in to a lot of what our show is about. Right. This idea of what it's like to grow up in a world where you, where you're constantly searching and you're trying to find yourself and you're really trying to understand yourself. But the cool part is that I'm telling it not only just through my lens, but I'm also telling my story through the lenses of famous people and famous black, fat, and non binary people that really shaped my life.
[01:29:49] Speaker B: So, like, I tie it together for the girls.
[01:29:51] Speaker D: Yeah. So I basically talk about the first time I heard someone in my family talk about Luther being queer and what that said to me, right. The idea of how my family responded to Luther and what that told me about queerness. I talk about seeing Andre Leon Talley after I. After I saw, started thinking about suicide and how seeing Andre really gave me this. This onus of, oh, I can be successful in entertainment one day. I talk about. A lot of folks don't know who this is, but Jason Williams, who was on a lot of people here, again, I called, but Jason Williams was on the second season of making the band, and he was the quote unquote den mother. And I have a chapter about them calling him a queen and what that meant for me being called a queen. Right. I go into all of these different. The first time I ever meet Latrice Royale, who wrote my Ford, all of these things. These are all people who, like, inspired me, but also helped me figure out who I was in a world where I wasn't allowed to. And so that's really what the book is. I've been saying, and I will keep saying it's a love letter to black fat femmes.
[01:30:59] Speaker A: Well, that's amazing.
[01:31:01] Speaker B: You know, I might not be all three, but I'm two of them.
I'm gonna get the book. And I think that, you know, baby, I think that it's going to. There's a lot that will still resonate with me, you know, as well, because I, you know, I listen to your podcast and just, I find myself, obviously. Mm hmm. And amen. And I heard that. And that's right, you know, a lot of times. So again, thank you and congratulations, baby. And y'all, we will be right back.
[01:31:26] Speaker A: All right, thank you again, doctor John Paul and Jordan Daniels, for just being so candid and hilarious. If you haven't already, please subscribe to their podcast, go out and get Doctor John Paul's book.
You know, the website, the.
The podcast is always a good time, and you always learn a little something. Also, make sure you go out there and get Doctor John Paul's book, Black Fat Film, revealing the power and visibility for queer. Wait, shit.
All right, thank you again, doctor John Paul and Jordan Daniels, for just being so candid and hilarious. I love catching up with you, and if you haven't already subscribed to their podcast.
What are you waiting for? It's a good time, and you always learn a little something. And make sure you get Doctor John Paul's book Black Fat Femme, revealing the power of visibly queer voices in media and learning to love yourself. That's an amazing title. All right, now, before we go, you know how we do here, we drop a little. Okay, I'm losing my energy. 1 second.
[01:32:40] Speaker B: Oh, you caught that?
[01:32:42] Speaker A: I felt that it was me trying to rest through it. And here we go.
[01:32:58] Speaker B: Whoo.
[01:33:01] Speaker A: All right, thank you again to doctor John Paul and Jordan Daniels for just being so candid in our conversation.
It was amazing. If you haven't already subscribed to their podcast, what are you waiting for? It's always a good time. You learn something. And be sure to pick up doctor John Paul's book Black Fat, revealing the power of visibly queer voices in media and learning to love yourself.
All right, y'all, that's it for us today. But before we go, I just want to drop a little buddhist breadcrumb. You know how we do here? Drop a little c, let it sink in. Hopefully it'll blossom into something beautiful. So, in Buddhism, we believe that life is like a mirror, and the way we live reflects back on us and the world around us. Daisaku Ikeda says that when we change, the world changes in media space, where in Buddhism, we believe that life is like a mirror, and the way we live our lives reflects back on us and the world around us.
Daisaku Ikeda says when we change, the world changes in media space, where voices of authenticity and truth are so important. Remember, embracing and respecting our own unique voices. That's how we carve out out space for others to do the same.
Every act of sharing your story authentically can inspire someone else to shine in their truth. And together we can create a more compassionate, connected world.
No opportunity wasted.
