Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome back to now. No opportunity wasted. I'm your host, Angelica Ross.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: This is the podcast where we talk.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: About taking control of our lives, seizing those opportunities, and making sure that we don't sit around waiting for somebody else to change things for us. Truth is, ain't nobody coming to save us. But that doesn't mean that we're powerless. We have the ability to respond, to shape our own lives, our communities, and even our country.
Because let me tell you something, if it's something that I've learned on this journey, is that waiting on somebody else to hand you an opportunity to recognize.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Your worth or to fight for you.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: I'd still be waiting.
But the moment that you realize that you are the one that you've been waiting for, that's when everything changes.
All right, before we get into today's episode, as always, I want to start things off with a quote from Buddhism. Day by Day Wisdom for Modern Life by Daisaku ikeda. Quotes from March 17, and it reads, quote, wisdom is rooted in the souls of human beings. The way to acquire it is to follow the simple advice of Socrates, know thyself.
This is the starting point for the establishment of a sense of human dignity, preventing the degradation of human beings into anonymous, interchangeable cogs in a machine.
The essence of true knowledge is self knowledge. End quote.
Baby, that one hits me deep. Because it has taken me a lifetime to truly know myself.
And if I'm being real, there were times when I thought I knew myself, but I was really just reacting to what the world expected of me. I was playing roles, checking boxes, molding myself to fit other people's ideas of who I should be, what a woman is.
But now nobody knows me better than me. And that's the power. Because when you truly know yourself, you stop waiting for permission.
You stop looking outside yourself for validation. And that's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. How we take that self knowledge and turn it into self leadership.
Now, if you're ready to go a little bit deeper into this journey of self knowledge and transformation, I want to invite you all to check out my new masterclass, Like a Butterfly, available right now in the winner's circle. And for members of my YouTube channel, this class is about embracing your evolution, learning how to move with intention and adapt to all these challenges and step into your power unapologetically.
So if you're ready to stop holding yourself back, this is for you.
You can find all the details in the show notes and head to my website to sign up for free. Win.missross.com that's W I N.M I S S R O S S.com all right, this week we continue to try to.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Make sense with Renita Shannon, former Georgia.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: State representative activist and someone who knows firsthand the real stakes of the political shenanigans. She's been in the room, she's fought for progressive policies, and she also has seen just how weak and complacent the Democratic Party can be.
Yeah, the frustration is real. We keep seeing these moments where Democrats have the power, but they're too afraid or unwilling to use it. And the more they refuse to fight, the more ground we lose, to the point where we are literally watching the full implementation of Project 2025 unfold right before our eyes.
So how do we make sense of it? How do we hold them accountable while also finding ways to build power outside of them?
Let's get into it with Renita Shannon.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: So, so much has happened since last week. Okay. Tariff wars with Canada, Mexico, and China.
[00:04:41] Speaker C: Right. So. And that's not even the maximum number of countries that he has started a trade war.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: So we upsetting everybody.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: We are upsetting everybody.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Everybody want to beat America.
[00:04:50] Speaker C: Allies, enemies, everybody.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: So explain to folks about these terrorists, because I don't think. I think people think that this is something that is being put on these other countries, which. Okay, it is. But it's not just the other countries that it's affecting.
[00:05:09] Speaker C: Absolutely. So, of course people are confused. You're right, because Trump is lying about this once again. So we're going to cut through the noise and tell you what everybody else knows about terrorists that Trump seems to not know. Okay, so let's just start with water tariffs. Tariffs are basically a tax that you pay on anything that does not come from the United States. So that could be imported goods, that could be fruits and vegetables.
It's really just anything that we don't produce or grow here in the United States.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: And the point of a tariff is to, I guess, be an income stream for that country.
[00:05:42] Speaker C: The point of a tariff, in the sense of why Trump is putting these tariffs on these other countries, is to force people to buy American. Although he started this tariff and this trade war, he said with Canada, for example, it was over the fact that they needed to reduce the amount of fentanyl that was coming into the country. So he's been slipping and sliding on the reasons why he started this trade war. But essentially, usually politicians will put tariffs on imports to encourage Americans to buy.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: American, but Trump don't even buy American.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Like Aren't the make America great again hats made in China?
[00:06:20] Speaker C: Everything's made in China. So. And most people know that. The other thing is that, so like, here's the thing that's so crazy about all this. People do not realize, I will say Americans don't realize that the majority of the things that we consume, from our food to the products that we buy, to the cars that we buy, everything that we consume, we do not make enough of our own stuff to be self sustainable. So what that means is that most of the food.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Do we not have the capability to make our own stuff?
[00:06:45] Speaker C: That's in debate, yes. You know, we probably, we may have the capability to make our own stuff, but the point is we don't. So, for example, we get 2/3 of our produce, so that's fruits and vegetables just from Mexico.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Two thirds.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: It's not just avocado.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: Two thirds, not one, two. And I don't know if y'all know math, but there's only three thirds. It's one third. Two third and three third is a whole.
[00:07:06] Speaker C: Right? Two thirds, two thirds. And so the point is that we are so interconnected with other countries that many of the products that you use every day, we get them from other countries. It's just like the running joke where people will say, oh, everything's made in China. Because you look at the bottom of everything and it is made in China.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: But the number one rule is when you are dependent on somebody else for.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Something, right, don't talk shit.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: Right?
[00:07:32] Speaker B: You can't talk shit.
[00:07:35] Speaker C: You cannot. Especially when you don't have your resources set up. So that kind of brings me to the next point, which is that, you know, we even get things like oil and gas from other countries. So it's not just fruits, vegetables, steel.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Aluminum, oil and gas shop.
[00:07:48] Speaker C: Right. We, we're getting most of our food, most of our products from other countries. So for example, Canada sends us oil in the. And gas. So Canada provides electricity to about 1.5 million Americans. And they are threatening to turn the electricity off if this trade war.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: It sounds like it's more than a threat.
[00:08:06] Speaker C: I believe him.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Justin Trudeau, even though he on his way out.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: He's out now, actually. Right, he is, but they sounded, that didn't sound like a threat. That sounded like even if you roll back these things now, we're moving forward with some of this, so, you know, not to do this again.
[00:08:24] Speaker C: Absolutely. Because Trump has been, you know, lobbying these trade, these tariffs at other countries and then he, for the second time now, just Take Canada, for example. He has said, oh, you know, just joking, we're going to delay the tariffs. And so Canada has responded and said, list all the back and forth, is causing chaos, is causing markets to fall, which is connected to everybody's 401k and pension. So they are saying, we're tired of the foolishness and we're going to move forward with these tariffs and also might turn off your electricity.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Oh, so is that.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Who is that?
[00:08:54] Speaker B: New York?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: So there is a couple of states, I think it's New York, Minnesota, Michigan. There are a few states that actually get oil and gas from Canada. And so the other thing is that, like, even if you just look at the food that we import from Canada and Mexico, some economists are saying just the food tariffs alone could add $1,000 worth of increased expenses for families in the, in the country.
Thousand dollars per year of increased expenses. And that's not even including the aluminum tariffs that came out today from other countries. And so everything is going to go up. That's soda cans, the cost to, you know, do construction for new houses, the cost of food, oil and gas, everything.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: So, so we saw images obviously of, of folks taking down liquor bottles and things like that. Jack Daniels taking all these things off of the shelves, you know, and then, and then, you know, I think Canada or certain places are not going to be buying their beef, you know, from America anymore. They're going to get it elsewhere.
For those who need to understand that if you don't drink alcohol or you don't eat beef, this is still going to affect you. This is still going to affect so many, even stores and what they pay folks.
Because right now, does, does this affect, does this have anything to do in the conversation when it comes to worker wages?
[00:10:28] Speaker C: Well, it's definitely going to affect jobs. So take for example, what you brought up, which was a brilliant point about the amount of alcohol that we ship to Canada and that Canada purchases from the United States. Jack Daniels is a supplier for Canada whiskey. And they, for example, had to lay off, I think of the estimate was like something about, yeah, it was close to like a thousand workers in January. Oh, wow. And so now with this new tariff stuff going on, Canada has also said, okay, we're going to take all of the American liquor off the shelves. Like the liquor just will not be purchased. The way it works is they are actually sending that liquor back to companies like Jack Daniels. So Jack Daniels, who just had to lay off a bunch of employees, you can imagine that this is a really bad time for them to Be told they're losing a big customer.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:13] Speaker C: So that could result in more job losses.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: And folks voted for Trump for this reason, to fix the account because the account. Wasn't they sick. They voted for him for the economy, isn't that right?
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Right. That's what some folks said. We know why folks voted for him.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Right. Okay. Because can we. Okay, okay, okay. Can we really. We say we gonna cut through the political noise. So let's cut through a little bit of this noise.
I don't believe, I just don't believe a single person that says they voted for Trump for any other reason than the bigotry and the racism and the, the oppression, the white supremacy with one of those reasons. It ain't about the economy. Stop lying to everybody. You either racist, you're bigoted, you don't like trans folks, you think women need to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. You subscribe to some of those things. And how is it that he has become the Christian president? How is it that people say, because of my faith, I voted for Trump?
[00:12:22] Speaker C: No, it's definitely not just about the economy. I mean, case in point, Democrats also want a great economy. We also have bills to pay. We also have kids to feed and food to put on tables. So, you know, the being about the economy is just a bunch of why.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Do, what is the. Why do the American people.
And how is it even a thing where people assume that Republicans or conservatives are more able to be economically responsible when they're showing they are not?
[00:12:56] Speaker C: But it's so interesting that you asked that question because Republicans have branded themselves as the, you know, party of business, very many part. Right. Of small government. And so I think that, you know, decade after decade, folks have not directly felt the tangible results of what it's like for Republicans to come in and do a very bad job.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: A lot of content coming up.
[00:13:15] Speaker C: We're about to get hurt. So everybody's going to know what it is to elect. I'm starting my own garden, particularly Trump.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Me too.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: And I don't even have a green thumb. Half my plants are dying right now upstairs, but I am going to grow a green thumb. About to grow me some blueberries, some eggplant, you know, the real eggplant. I'm going to grow me some. I'm going to find all the things to grow and I'm just going to learn to be self sufficient.
[00:13:41] Speaker C: Yeah. So the point is, no matter, you.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Know, the real eggplant, I'm going to grow me some. I'm going to find all the things to grow. And I'm just going to learn to be self sufficient.
The only people that are going to fare any kind of well in this are those who are already living in communal ways. Folks who have dinners, you know, and, and basically feed their communities. You know what I mean? Like a lot of us trans folks who are taking care of each other, you know, black folks, Mexicans, you know, folks who, like, are used to, like, bringing folks in and doing that. This individualistic mindset is not going to save anybody right now.
[00:14:56] Speaker C: Well, and that's certainly.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: You're going to need each other.
[00:14:57] Speaker C: We are going to need each other. That's certainly one way to fight it. I would argue that the reason why Trump doesn't understand why this is going to be so impactful on, you know, everybody in the country is because for, you know, millionaires and billionaires, they don't. They'll still be able to afford groceries next week. So.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. I feel like I've already felt the price increase. I think stuff is already going up. But why am I also hearing that Dems are getting mad at other dims for resisting all of this? I mean, first of all, we just had saw Al Green stand up and be the only one with the backbone and stand up. And then you got, you know, folks who are talking about him breaking decorum and you got Hakeem Jeffries going on a rant and how folks need to be listen. He's. I heard that he told them that they shouldn't do anything, anything other than not clap. He don't even want them holding up signs. But I need them to know they need to be focused on fighting, not decorum.
[00:15:57] Speaker C: Right. So the moral story is don't listen to resistance is important. And don't listen to detractors telling you not to resist, even if it's your own team. Yeah. What we saw last week was Democrats getting upset and even voting with Republicans to help censor Representative Al Green. I would say I'm surprised, but I'm not. This is something that Democrats have been doing for quite a long time. I think back to 2019 when I was trying to filibuster a bill to outlaw abortion in Georgia because I understood it was removing bodily autonomy and removing access to healthcare. And we don't have filibuster in Georgia. So what I was trying to do is filibuster the bill. I stood up, gave a speech at the podium and intentionally talked a lot longer than, what, the time that I was allotted. And I was hoping to basically talk so long that it would, you know, kind of mess up the decorum of the House, and then we'd have to shut things down and the bill would not have a chance to pass. Long story short, Democrats got mad at me and did a similar thing of what they did to Al. Representative Al Green last week, which was I had to attend a Come to Jesus meeting where I was chastised about breaking decorum. I was asked to apologize to the caucus.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Apologize.
[00:17:09] Speaker C: And you know, I did not. I was like, I have nothing to apologize for. And additionally, Democrats and Republicans wrote the ethics chair in the House to ask that there be a vote taken that I be censored or expelled. So.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: And wait, wait. Do you. I think you almost told me that folks had. A couple folks had threatened to resign.
[00:17:28] Speaker C: There were some Democrats who. Who threatened to resign over me showing that type of resistance. So that's why I say that.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Just tell me you didn't even want to do your job. When you want to resign over something somebody else doing, that means you ready to quit? You just ready. You know what you doing? I'm ready to. That's what that was. That wasn't a real thing. All I know. All I know is when you come from the most marginalized communities, like me, as a black trans woman, your first priority is never decorum. You just don't have that luxury and you never will.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: Right? Absolutely. And as I've always said, if you don't want to fight or you can't fight, then get out of the seat. Nobody's making you run for office. The larger point that I think that everybody needs to kind of look at this. Look at it through this lens is that Dems, you know, getting upset about folks resisting is leading us to really bad places. I think you saw this week where.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Mahmoud Khalil.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:23] Speaker C: The top. The Trump administration went and is trying to deport him. He is a US Green card holder, so he's not a US Citizen, but he has.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Not only are they trying to dis. Not only are they trying to deport.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Him, they have disappeared him.
[00:18:38] Speaker C: Right.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: And people are using this language because, you know, these were tactics, fascist tactics in ways which. There's no due process, there's no reading your rights, there's no respecting the fact that he's got. There's none of this stuff. So he's a legal resident.
[00:18:57] Speaker C: Well, also beyond that, we have something called the First Amendment. So the reason why he has been disappeared is because he was a leader at the student protest that took place.
I think it was last year, over Palestine. And so the point is, is that all of this didn't start with the Trump administration. Democrats held a press conference, if you remember, saying that the folks who were standing in support of Palestine were to be labeled as extremists. So under the Biden administration, they were labeled as extreme.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: That's why I was extreme at the time.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: That's why I was saying at the time. This is why I was saying this. If you don't make a very distinguished line of demarcation, folks are being so willfully obtuse on the Internet and I need you to stop it right now. I need you to stop it because I'm going to say right now, I know I didn't say it. Maybe there were a couple people out there that just said off the top of their head, Republicans and Democrats, they're the same.
Maybe some people did say that. But I need you to understand some nuance. Understand that people ain't always breaking everything down like that. And understand that we're not saying that the Democrats and the Republicans are the exact same. I'm not saying that Harris would have done what is happening right now. I don't think she would. What I am saying is while I was protesting for Palestine, saying Free Palestine, I was being labeled as anti Semitic by the Democrats.
There were police forces raining down on college campuses for protests under Democrats.
[00:20:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: So when you set a precedent, you only set something up for them to go and make it even worse. So we can't now sit here and point at them like they're the ones who know they didn't start that.
You could have taken your moment while you were on the podium. You could have took the moment to set the tone from that moment. But instead you want to gaslight college students who in school learning words and learning things that adults don't even forgot they done forgot they don't even know anymore. And you gonna tell a student.
And being anti Zionist is also being anti Semitic.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: Well, and the crazy thing is, is that one of the, you know, the First Amendment and freedom of speech is one of those uniting principles that most people in the country would agree we need to keep strong. So for Democrats to become weak on that issue is just a point of I don't understand what is to be.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: I don't think they're no longer. I don't think.
I just don't think they're no longer the People's Party.
I don't think the Democrats are no longer the liberating party.
It's no longer about all of us having liberation. Because each time, each time they're telling one of us, one of our communities. Hold on. We'll get to you.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: Listen, if that don't wake you up, I don't know what will.
What Renita and I broke down is exactly why we cannot afford to sit on the sidelines waiting for someone to save us. Because if the people we put into power won't fight, then we gonna have to figure out how to fight for ourselves.
And this ain't just about politics. This is about every single aspect of our lives. The personal is political, whether it's our careers, our communities, or our personal growth. Waiting on permission, baby, that's a losing game. And that brings me to today's guest, the one and the only Deshaun Wesley. Desean is a legend in ballroom, an.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Actor, a host, a choreographer.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: But more than anything, he is someone who took control of his own narrative. He's someone who saw the value in his culture way before mainstream did. And he moved with intention to make sure that when the world finally caught up, he was already there, ready to lead. And if that's not a masterclass in self, knowledge, resilience, and power, I don't know what is. So, without further ado, let's get into my conversation with Deshaun Wesley.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: Well, welcome to now DeShawn Wesley, how are you?
[00:23:27] Speaker D: Angelica, baby. What's good, my love? How are you?
[00:23:30] Speaker B: Oh, it's so good to see you. I know. You know what? It's not only just good to see you, it's actually just good to see you, like, doing well, you know, you just are constantly in your bag. Like, I feel like every time I turn around, you in a different bag. And it's always what the category is, giving.
[00:23:49] Speaker D: I mean, I'm just living the best one, you know? So I just go out there and, you know, do the best stuff that makes a king like me exist and live, you know?
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Now. Now you in New York? You. You from New York, right?
[00:24:01] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm from New York City, you.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Know, but you at. Where you at right now?
[00:24:04] Speaker D: I'm in Los Angeles, honey, you can't.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: Can you talk about why you in Los Angeles? I don't know if you could talk about it.
[00:24:10] Speaker D: Y. Talk about it. This is one of the things I kind of. I've been in New York City all my life, so sort of like, you know, I wanted a different change, something new, a different scenery, you know, but quite interesting enough. Although I've been in Los Angeles for 10 years, this marked my 10 year I've been out here, I still go back to New York City like, once or twice a month.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you know, because when it's in you, you know, you. But listen, I was. I never caught on to New York. I have a lot of friends who, you know, really. Our ride or die New York. And listen, I love to visit. It was wonderful when I was on Broadway. That was cute.
[00:24:45] Speaker D: That was.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: It was. It was a cute feel and a cute look for a moment. I lived in Harlem, you know, I was always hitting up that Jamaican restaurant that was open 24 hours up there in Harlem.
You know what I mean? Like, oh, my goodness. Being able to have that kind of food. But, you know, New York is. Is a little high price for me. It's a little rich for my blood, for what you. For what they're giving. You know what I'm saying? They give you very small space. But, you know, I. I heard recently that you are. Can I say that you're on the Voice?
[00:25:17] Speaker D: Oh, well, yeah. I was just there as a dancer, you know, on the Voice.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[00:25:23] Speaker D: I'm a very. You know, they call us the kind of like. Oh, gosh, what they call it, like, the. Not the alternative kind of style, but the. The outside style that's on there. So this is kind of why I was kind of highlighted a little bit more than everyone else because just have this unique style.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: I was about to say because what I really was holding out for was you being on the Voice for your voice.
[00:25:45] Speaker D: Girl, I ain't ready for that yet. I was just supporting the artist who was going to compete. And, you know, because you have.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: You. If. If anybody. If I would call anybody in this day and age, the voice. Cause, you know, that's Whitney. But, you know, like, if I would call somebody, the other voice, it would be you, because your voice is so distinguishable. I know. I remember being on set with. On. On Pose and. And Leomi, Naomi. What have me cracking up because Leo me, like, now. Deshaun, you're gonna have to raise that voice up a little bit. You fooling all us girls.
[00:26:23] Speaker D: Whatever, y'all. How y'all doing? Y'all good? Okay, let's do this.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: But they just need to know that the, you know, the butch queens had the butch boys have the voices like that, too.
[00:26:32] Speaker D: You know what? It's funny enough, you know, you know, during.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: And. And not to mention, they've been after the girls a little bit.
[00:26:40] Speaker D: Yeah, true. I mean, well, listen, is it. The space is much different than where it was years ago now, so, you know, people are more comfortable in the space to speak and live in and also be in. So that's why I'm loving it today, no matter where it is. Someone actually called me like a. A butch king the other day, and I was just like, oh, my gosh. Like, I feel that I was, okay, I get it. I, you know, I got my.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: But you know, what's so great about someone like you is that you embody this artistic ebb and flow of masc and femininity in such a way that I feel like your masculinity, honestly, is kind of what I'd like to see modeled in, like, with CIS het men, with straight men, because it's kind of the thing where you have your style. And for me, I'm looking at you every, most many times I see you. You know, it's undeniably masculine. You know, it's your own kind of thing. But whenever you want to put any kind of twist on it, you do. And it gives authentic. It doesn't give that you're wearing something that you shouldn't be wearing it. It literally gives. This is what is natural for me.
[00:27:53] Speaker D: Well, you know what I always say, this is kind of so interesting. Growing up definitely in Brooklyn, New York City, having that. The type of family who wasn't, you know, prone or open to the sexuality, you know, differences and understandings. Definitely. I was younger, so it was so interesting because I always, you know, had this effeminate thing in me, but I was always around, you know, the men in my family. I was always supposed to be around the boys and play with the boys and all that. But, you know, I always knew there was something that was just so comfortable about me that I just always wanted to live. And I. I always undeniably lived in my truth, ever since I was younger, even if my parents didn't agree. And I came out of as a young at 14 years old. And from there, I just kept, you know, you only got one life to live, baby. And the one thing I always told myself is that you have to, like, just live it unconditionally without no questions asked. I know some things may come your way, but the challenges are what makes you who you are today.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: And, baby, well, listen, you. You just hit on the. On the topic today because, you know, the podcast is no opportunity wasted. And the reason why I started doing this was because so many people would pull me aside or look at me and be like, oh, my God, Angelica.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: Angelica Ross.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: I mean, you do this, you do that. Oh, I'm meeting you and maybe, you know, you are going to sprinkle some fairy dust on my life and, you know, something will happen like, listen, listen, listen. What all of this is about, number one, is that I am just one person and one reflection of what this can look like. Of what, when you live for your own self, of what this can look like. But at the end of the day, no opportunity wasted is all about what do you do with opportunities? Because there are many people that I know who squander opportunities, who don't show up for the opportunities. I think we even saw that many times on pose where pose was such a spectrum. Meaning what a lot of people didn't know that were coming into that space that were new was that everybody starts out in, yes, it being an extra and doing things. So I know, baby, you are legendary in the ballroom scene, but you're gonna be an extra.
[00:30:06] Speaker D: You're gonna be an extra head.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: And I know people were in their feelings originally about that, you know, and they were gagging and they were like, you know, I'm so and so and I shouldn't. But I think that what was wonderful and what happened over time is that what I love to see happen is shared knowledge and shared experience. Because what happens is I may not have a lot of experience in ballroom, but, baby, I've been acting and I've been acting for a long time. And so I shared a lot of my acting experience with whoever would listen. There are people who would act. There were people who were asking me questions about, you know, what to do or what have you. But it literally is about how you showed up not just to the category but to the opportunity. So talk to me about, like, how close or different was what we saw on TV as far as the ballroom life and culture and what your experience was coming from your family into the ballroom families.
[00:31:05] Speaker D: Well, baby, I started early again. I started at 14, you know, run into the West Village, you know, you know, from high school. But it's so interesting because I always kept myself on time when I had to do things. Like I was home before I needed to be, but I was out in the Village or going to Hetrick Martin Institute or going to GMHC and going to the drop in sensors and trying to understand this life or this person that I was. And I realized when I went out, of course, the first time I ever went, I seen voguing, so this is why that walks into that space. But when I went out, I started to see people who act like, looked like Me and was comfortable. And you know, that, you know, I, I met a group of friends and there's about like seven of them. And I, I, I always wonder where we are right now as an adult, but when I first came out, it was seven individuals from like, you know, the feminine butch queen to the cute masculine butch queen who got the feminine features, but still masculine. The masculine one who does too much. The, the one who's like two steps from, you know, being a girl, if you get what I mean. But, you know, absolutely. And it was like a group of them. And I looked at them, I was, there was so much. They were black, they were confident, they were comfortable. We were around the same age. And I was like, what am I missing? What am I missing? And I realized in order for me to get my understanding, I had to show up. So I went and would go to the Village every day. When I, when I would go, I would run into these, you know, ballroom folk. And you know, when I found out what I like about it, I start returning and going and doing so as the years go by. You know, I was about to say, you know, earlier, I didn't have this voice before. She was a little bit like high pitched and everything like that. Really crazy.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: So she dropped, she dropped, she dropped.
[00:32:41] Speaker D: Crazy. And I never forget, you know, again, you know, growing up, you know, they say play with the boys, but I was playing with the girls sometimes too. So I was out and about and I remember I was playing one day, my mom stopped me. She was like, ah, go play with those boys and put some bass in your voice. And I was like, well, girl, you asked for all this bass but not enough trouble because it is like crazy. But like, you know, during this experiences, again, I say those are the things and experience that I had that allowed me to sit in a space that I was in today because I was able to experience firsthand what it's like to be around those who was homeless, who was out every day until 8 in the morning, or going to a ball all night, or hanging out with friends for a whole weekend and telling your mom that you just would a cool friend. But y'all going out, hanging out and doing all these things. But those experience helped me to get to where I am today. From the me being competitive and utilizing my, my, my knowledge of what I have from those years that, you know, and I got.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Do you remember the first category that you walked, girl?
[00:33:40] Speaker D: Oh, you know, the funny thing is that nobody ever asked that question. The first category I ever walked, I got shot Because I thought I knew I was doing in ballroom, right.
I walked in, thought I should do Runway. I was like, oh, my gosh, I do Runway with one of those seven friends. Remember I told you about. Yeah, we went to Jersey to. Oh, my God, I forgot to. I forgot the name of the hall that's in Jersey. But when it pops her back up at will. And they was like, you should do it. And I was like, okay. So I took my button down shirt off, put it in the bun and everything like that, and caught myself walking and got chopped. So embarrassed. It was just so embarrassed. I was embarrassed.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: But you know what? I think every girl gots to get chopped. You know what I mean? So they build that character.
[00:34:21] Speaker D: I felt good getting chopped. I was like, oh, I got chopped. I need to come again, but maybe I need to figure out what's happening here. And once I really started to get in, I realized the type of person I was because I had this. This feminine thing. But this voice kicked in. But then I still have this masculine edge, but this feminine thing about me. So when I decided to participate in this voguing stuff back then, it was only the feminine guys to do soft and cunt. The dramatics would be looked at crazy. But I know I felt this dramatic yet masculine feminine soul that inside me that fit within this category. And it wasn't too many of us doing it. So I existed in that space.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: And let me ask you a question.
When I wonder if it's a New York thing, I wonder if it's like a city thing, like Chicago, New York, you know, Because I think that as black people. Yes. You better show that face. Okay. I mean, you can do either or, you know, you giving face. Oh, it's a category face today.
Yes. Oh, okay.
[00:35:15] Speaker D: We're de Cookie.
[00:35:18] Speaker B: But, you know, when it comes to the black queer experience, I feel like it can be a bit of a.
It can be a bit of a bit of a mixed bag depending on where you're coming out at. Because I feel like there's such a split experience within black queer culture where you have some folks, many of us, who were bullied, coming up, growing up in black neighborhoods with black people that we grew up with ribbing each other and doing everything. But if he was the gay one or if you was a feminine one or this or trans or anything, you know, there was bullying. There was a lot of things that many of us had to deal with.
[00:36:01] Speaker D: Right.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: But some of us then left these homes into other black queer spaces. Whereas, you know, when I left My hometown in Racine, Wisconsin, and went into Chicago, where the street was lined with rainbows. And that was going to be the place, baby. It was all white. And it was the. And it was the white people that controlled the clubs, the type of music that was played in the clubs, the girls that were getting paid to work at the clubs, like, all the different things. And what I end up seeing and what I experienced also early on, I remember doing drag around a bunch of white queens in, like, Rochester, New York, early on, when I first. When I first was coming out and like, Club Marcella's and all that up there.
Yes. And. And I mean, Pandora Box, Darien Lake, like, all them girls was up there, right? What I realized very quickly is that the white queens do not care if you are ashy. They do not care if you're dusty. They do not care if you don't have your stuff together, because then that means you are continuing to be no competition for them. So it was. It wasn't until I got around other black queens and my drag mother, Tracy Ross, who was like, girl, you go, you're not gonna walk out the house like that or you're gonna pull this on, girl. You need to put on some more makeup, like, you know, girls, because when you young, you think, you know, you just put on a little sprinkle or something and then you good.
[00:37:30] Speaker D: Now you're the best one in the spot, you know, Right.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: You don't need nothing, right? But you learn. You learn to do all those things. So. But I. I feel like, unfortunately, when I look at some of our black folks in community, I can see that they have not benefited from knowing the acceptance of black culture. Like, not just black queer folks, but other black people who don't give a damn if you're gay or. Or this or whatever. And so I see this kind of internalized, anti blackness. How did you. Did you not run into the fetishization of blackness and white LGBTQ spaces and all these other things?
[00:38:10] Speaker D: Definitely. And again, I came out early. So when I was out, we were taking over. The white space was the West Village. We were going out there for many and many hours. The cops were getting complaints from the residents in the areas because, you know, we were in a white area in Manhattan trying to live our lives and be comfortable. We would take over the streets, you know, you know, shout out to those who was working at the streets and working the blocks when the time was to come. But that was their way for them to, you know, to get their income. And it's that was one of the things that has existed because in ballroom, which we face too, because again, we occupy these other spaces and try to make it our own or we'll try to, you know, exist in this space where we could just be ourselves. So I usually say this is what happens in the ballroom scene right now. This is why I love the fact that we've grown from the space that we were in to where we at right now. Because we used to look at the, the ideology of whiteness as being something, as the, the ultimate top in the base. And as I see right now, please forgive me if this is too much.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: If what's too much?
[00:39:17] Speaker D: I'm sorry. It's a helicopter. Airplane Just passing by.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: I wonder, Marcel, do you hear that? I don't hear it.
I was about to say whatever you using over there outside, I need the tea on that, that.
[00:39:33] Speaker D: Oh, I'll tell you, baby, the technology.
[00:39:36] Speaker B: Because I'm like, you do not sound like you sitting outside, do.
[00:39:39] Speaker D: Oh, baby, I'm in my little front yard chilling right now, just having a combo with Angelica. Boo.
[00:39:44] Speaker B: That's cute. Yeah.
[00:39:47] Speaker D: So, yeah, I mean again in this, in this barm community even where, you know, I'm not sure, years ago and this line stopped. But some people still use it. But we use like, oh my God, I want to be white woman cunt. We want to be white woman rich. We want to be white woman like kind of like poured into. So, you know, I love that that ideology is not the same anymore because, and that's how I felt back then. Like I didn't look like them. I, I didn't have what they have. I didn't have that experience. So why am I applying myself?
[00:40:15] Speaker B: Well, you know, and that's why I have a certain read. I'm not going to call her out right now, but that's why I have a certain read for certain folks who don't understand their whiteness in these spaces.
[00:40:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: And don't understand why people are going up for you when you're walking in a fur coat looking like Marilyn Monroe. Because that's what the girls are trying to look up to, that kind of privilege. So you are embodying that, be respectful in the space that like we created the space because black and brown people weren't getting the light and they're still carrying this colorism, carrying anti blackness, carrying what I would call the really the booby trap of realness.
[00:40:58] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. Child, have that conversation, that realness conversation. And I, I, I'm totally with and agree about the Difference about. With how it existed back then, because people were just trying to live their life and be, you know, themselves compared to what's happening today. Baby, do what you feel. Live your life, you know, breathe, eat, chew, dress. Like, do what you do compared to back then. Like, if I wore pink, I would be in a lot of tr. Trouble.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: If I wanted to walk the face category, they'd be like, girl, sit down.
[00:41:29] Speaker C: What?
[00:41:30] Speaker D: No.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: Knowing, Knowing.
Knowing.
[00:41:34] Speaker D: I mean, no, I be telling you, Angelica, I feel like I got cookies sometimes, too. And sometimes people like this. When you should walk face, I'd be like, no, because I know what I could dominate y'all in right now, and I know what I. I can exist in this space. But when the time comes. When the time comes. But. But that's what I mean about Angelica. And even what I'm experiencing even now, what's happening here is because our community space is so big now, you know, we're not just underground anymore. We're now mainstream, as they call it. And what happens is we've grown into a space to where now people haven't experienced the same struggles that we have as being African American, black, Latino people in this culture or the type of experience we have as minorities. But we go to these countries where they enjoy this. This. This space in this world, but they didn't grow up like we.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: We did.
[00:42:16] Speaker D: They didn't experience like we have. And it's. It's. This is why like, myself and others go out and I educate and give them the culture and make sure that, again, in order for you to. To understand this, you have to, like, deep dive in. You have to understand you can't just go out, see what you see. Oh, my God, I like this. I want to do it. Because when you come here, you gag, because you'll find out you'll get red before you hit the Runway, and you'll be like, well, why did I get red? Because I like doing this. But, you know, so it's. So it's educating not only the. The. The people who enjoy it, who are outside of what we know, because we know A will get her life because she's dressed as Marilyn Monroe, because she fit the aesthetic. But again, this is the only. The. The kind of space that we get that can acknowledge things like that. But understand, like, why do we acknowledge this? We'll let you know why. Why we are now open to the space, allowing people to be in Russia and be in houses and have ballroom and start ballroom, but making sure that the communities, you know, stays exactly Addresses what needs to be done. Because we ain't gonna do nothing but grow bigger, baby.
[00:43:14] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:43:15] Speaker D: Definitely.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: How do you, you know, as people understand, like, especially with, you know, with ballroom, you know, with so much being about, you know, realness and trying to fit up to, like, obviously if the world were fair, you know, there. This. This girl would be a model, this person would be in the military. This person is very much giving all these aesthetics. What. Where do you see the community has grown from this place of having to put on airs, having to almost fake it till you make it in so many ways, to then actually having to show up with real realness. Are you seeing that? You know, because I think that that's what is required for the folks who are transitioning from the ballroom scene into mainstream category, mainstream society that might need you to show up for 4am Call time or that might need you to show up for, you know, certain things. So what are the many ways I think, or what are some of the ways that you would say you've seen the ballroom culture mature?
[00:44:30] Speaker D: I'll. I'll start back from a space to where, again, I don't care about telling what year I came out in ballroom. Like, my first experience was 1997.
My first participation was 98, when I tried to jump on that Runway situation. But, like, the. The growth that I realized is that it was a very violent place, child. It was very, very, very violent. And, and I mean violent because, you know, if you said the wrong thing to somebody, you know, you never know what may occur. I've seen one time somebody was just participating in a category and someone lost another person, just got up and just hit him. But we was in that. That culture of like, you know, of it was just.
I'm not sure what the. The anger or the how. Why everyone's so upset, but I can understand what we all have been through of why we in this space just trying to celebrate being one another and, you know, sort of the black family, the cousins go against each other, aunts and uncles arguing. Read. But. But what I love about the maturity is that we've also expanded our minds and brains to number one again grow to other spaces outside of our own in America, to those all over the world.
There are still categories that need some upgrading, some fine tuning that we are now opening up. And I think I love the fact that the younger generation actually came here and created their own space so they can have the type of fun that they can have. Because sometimes in the kind of mainstream old space, we still stuck within that old rules. But you know, some people still think that we need to be have on a suit and tie to be best dressed as a man. That it doesn't exist anymore. That suit and tie is not it. I don't. That woman don't need to wear a gown just for her to be best.
[00:46:06] Speaker B: Well, you know, one of the things too I think that we showed imposed but I think that, you know, even though that was the 1980s, we're still seeing this today.
[00:46:16] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: And to be honest, I was at this ball and I just knew, I just knew some mistakes were being made and some girls were about to get gooped because there are girls who swear they are real as rain. But you want to put some CIS women on the judges panel, baby. And then they had the girls touching they chins and they throats and I'm sitting over to the side like oh my God, what is happening?
[00:46:49] Speaker D: Because was on the microphone while that was going.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: I think you were, I think you were mc. And while that was going on, I'm sitting here Brandy from P Valley. There was also Gail Bean that was there and obviously Mary J. Blige and all them. But when I saw them start to go for they I said, oh no, I because now we're in a situation where something we created now you invite these other people to the table and now it's violence. Now that kind of. Because I'm seeing some of. And I was seeing some of our legends like the girls, we go up for getting packing because.
[00:47:32] Speaker D: Because what we did was we taught the outside how to understand what's going on here. So when they come here, have the opportunity to now sit in the space. And we never know how, how somebody may occupy a space. Someone could be nice like someone could be shady, baby. That night the celebs came out and Law, my gosh.
[00:47:52] Speaker B: Oh, and Law let the girls have it. Law said don't you do it.
[00:47:55] Speaker D: And what I, what I mean about this is. And I, I, I, I, I think because we've grown in such a space now because I remember back in it years ago, you know, celebrities used to sit on panels as well too. I remember Kelise was that a panel one time and she sat on a panel whatsoever. And it's like these are opportunities because we appreciate them. We love those who turn into our community. Definitely our black women who turns in and give us our kudos and live with us and communicate with us and everything like that. But we had the opportunity space for celebrities to sit on a space and panel because that's always been kind of a thing now for a whole plethora of straight people be on a panel, we've done that quite a few times. But again, they're coming from a space of not knowing how we structure our everyday. And they're coming from a space of y'all, you know, y'all giving us the knowledge. So we're gonna go here and, you know, the people express.
[00:48:46] Speaker B: So that day, baby, I. I felt so bad, but. And I literally pulled Gail aside, and me and Gail have been talking ever since because I literally put her aside, say, okay, I totally know what you're going for. And they just told you the rules, and these are the rules. But in our. What I. What you need to understand about this is that this level of realness is coming from a place with. Keeping in mind of where we come from.
[00:49:14] Speaker D: From. Yeah.
[00:49:15] Speaker B: And so it's never. I. Yes, we go up for the girls who are unclockable and unspookable and all the different things or whatever, but we have to. We have to navigate various surgeries and different things that either we had the money for, didn't have the right surgery surgeon for, and different things. So as we're building ourselves up, this is a place for us to build our confidence. And. And also, like, obviously, a girl doesn't step onto the floor when she's not, you know, feeling like she can compete. But at a certain level, you have snatched yourself together in such a way. And I think the point is, for everyday people, people, the point is, is that girl, you can. You can be ugly, you cannot have the best. Listen, you can have a badly built body.
It's about how you carry that badly built body.
[00:50:10] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:50:11] Speaker B: It's about what you drape onto that badly built body.
[00:50:14] Speaker D: And this. This is why I. I support my women. Because, you know, again, because let's just say this panel of straight people don't know that this. This woman got her body done and is being celebrated for it. But in the outside, they're just saying, oh, well, you know, but again with that. That celebration that. That work that she put in. And again, my women go through so much in this. This community, definitely even in today, about realness, because, again, who are you to say that she is not real because she don't have the long hair that somebody else has?
[00:50:45] Speaker B: But think about it this way.
But think about how this crosses over. And this is where I thought that, you know, I hate to be. I. I hope that people see me. I really. And I don't care if they Don't. But I do hope that people see me for truly how I show up. And it's like, I'm not trying to be a party pooper, but if we say that we want to be aware of certain things, then I'm probably going to be that girl that's going to, like, at least raise a finger and say, so. The thing is, like, again, you can see how. What, what. How we judge ourselves and then how we judge each other and then how we teach the rest of the world to judge us. And we are still trying to hold up to this measuring stick that is about CIS hetero straight people or whatever, when in reality, I had to comment under Kiki Palmer's. She did a post, and she was saying, like, you know, why is it that, you know, men have these Adam's apples? You know, I was always attracted to these men with them Adam's apples and blah, blah, whatever. And it was something very innocent, you know, so it's not something that you go on and drag somebody for.
[00:51:52] Speaker D: Right.
[00:51:53] Speaker B: But it's these type of conversations where we have to have more clarity and understand that Callista Flockhart has an Adam's apple.
[00:52:01] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:52:01] Speaker B: There are many cisgender women that have Adam's apple. So not all men have them where they're prominently shown, and not all women are. Have them where they're absent and they can't see them. But when we do this, we automatically create transphobia in any spaces, especially in an environment now that is giving cisgender women, for those that don't like that term, that are giving, you know, born women. You know, him, you know, I'm. You know, get that conversation.
[00:52:31] Speaker D: Yeah, we know.
[00:52:31] Speaker B: Yeah. But, you know, they are stopping them at the dough and saying, excuse me, ma'am, or, sir, I don't think you quite fit in the bill. I need you to go home and shave that little mustache that you got growing. And. And there. There be the gag. Because we had this whole conversation where people were judging trans people and saying, well, they should shave and they should do this. And it's like, first of all, nobody owes you a performance, right? Nobody owes you performance, first of all. Second of all, I have been to so many black beauty shops sitting around with the girls, and some of them are getting their lips waxed and some of them saying, you know what? I gave up on it, and it's just gonna be what it is. You understand what I'm saying? So you got to stop judging folks by these boxes that none of us will be able to fit so what we end up finding out, I think from ballroom, the thing that I took mostly from ballroom and from candy is kind of like when you don't necessarily fit, you know what I'm saying, snugly into some of these boxes and categories. Well, maybe you need to walk your own and create your own path, but learn how to do so in ways that, that take what's available, color, texture, whatever the things are and learn what works for your shapes and your colors and your things. Because I'm telling you right now, it's somebody right now that ain't got the best body, that ain't got the best face, but because they know how to have style and present themselves and show up to work making a coin, baby, they probably got a lot of people trying to get married and trying to, you know, come, come after them.
[00:54:12] Speaker D: I, I, well you, you, you said it right. I, I, I again, if, if, if we as a community don't, do we have to do the experiences that like, like you said, how imposed the people in the background got to know, sometimes you got to experience to get there. I can't tell you how many times I sat in the background in spaces that wasn't even familiar to my own. But like, you know, you have to put in that work in order for that to have the outcome, to even make the change. That's what's happening today for the future.
[00:54:39] Speaker B: How did you, how did you make the leap from being in the background there and pose to then being the host of legendary?
[00:54:47] Speaker D: Well, you know what, it's shocking enough because I'll tell you this, so I'll, I'll go behind prior before what I've been doing, before it even got to a pose situation like before was teaching classes and you know, traveling the world and all that other stuff. I was always competing everywhere and myself and others in my space used to, I'll go back to this. I was watching America's Best dance Crew one time like before they decided to put us on a season and like the people were doing our moves and that was like how would they know about doing a move from our community? And it just, it didn't make no sense. I'm not saying that's there been a beginning space, but that's what made us try to work hard within the ballroom community or those who are, who takes the talents outside of the community and make the world see. Because sometimes, you know, we can see how easy for us to do something and it could be taken away just like this. So what I did was I Showed up, baby. What I did, I didn't mind being a background when I was 14 years old on Law and Order, because that's what happened, child. But what I did in order to do that, I did my research online in New York, casting. I was paying these things. I was doing something much different that a lot of people were not doing.
[00:55:55] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:55:55] Speaker D: So I was applying myself at the same time when I was younger or, you know, until a specific. I used to model too. So I was in front of the camera. I learned how, how to move in front of the camera. I know I learned how my body. I learned how to put shapes on because of this experience that I was going through while I was experiencing the same culture, what it was. And in the back of my mind, Angelica, I have to be real. I'll take it back to the first time I stepped foot on the floor. I always said, this is going to be bigger than what it is. And in order for me to. I need to apply what I feel. And I was.
[00:56:27] Speaker B: You saw the opportunity way. Yeah, way.
[00:56:30] Speaker D: Angelica. I swear, I've seen it way before and even I will now. I'll push it back to the stuff that's been done. Whether if I went on tour with Rihanna, whether I was in music videos, whether I went to Vienna with all these celebrities and, you know, maybe I.
[00:56:42] Speaker B: Was in a hotel room one day and saw your picture, like, as art on the wall. I was like, is that they Sean, like, on the whole, it's a fancy hotel too.
[00:56:51] Speaker D: Yeah. Funny enough, I, I still got that video, Angelica, of you sending me. You was like, hold on, I'm inside the hotel and look who on the wall. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And again, that reminds me of the, the small things that I put in, you know, the $150 job you gotta do, which gives you so much of this exposure, but they're not paying attention to you. They doing this. And. And when I kept. I was consistent. I was doing what I had to do. I would go to pose and I went to season one for pose. And I remember season one. I only did the very first episode. The very first episode. They just brought me in as a dance and everything like that. And I was like, you know what a specific spaces. I was like, I, I. And we was outside at the pier when it was cold. You remember that? And we had to wear the bags and things. Yeah, I remember all the, the hot pads and everything like that.
[00:57:35] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness, yes.
[00:57:36] Speaker D: And I was there as a dancer for season one, episode one. But that was the only episode I did. And then when they came approaching me again, I was like, you know what? You know, Dashawn is one of those people who's travel, who's done things. I put in the work. A lot of people seen the work that I have done even prior before getting to these spaces. Whether you see me on my house, you see me on, how do I look, you see anything. When it comes to ballroom spaces, Dashawn, you know, is being spoken, whether it's a microphone commentating, whether it's competing, or whether it's just me being my natural self and giving some good advice, because I'm all about love and making sure everybody move how they move. So when it came to season two, I was like, well, you know, D, what's up? You know, I know how it is. And it's about the community they brought me in, even to being under, you know.
[00:58:17] Speaker B: Was it the House of Wintour?
[00:58:18] Speaker D: The House of Wintour.
[00:58:20] Speaker B: Oh, yes. I was living. I gagged. I gagged.
[00:58:26] Speaker D: Felt so good, Angelica. Because at the same time, what it did say for me was because I was able to see my friend. My friends have this opportunity of being in a space that they never experienced before. That's fun and new for them, but they have to learn to work by sitting there for 12 hours before we actually shoot the first spot. This is something you have to do, so occupy your time with something good for those 12 hours. So when it gets there, you do what you got to do. But then, like, I was able to now sit in this space to where what I. The work I was putting, I was seeing it because, you know, it was happening. Here I am. Angelica's chairs right there. Desean Cheer right here. Billy Porter chair right there. You know, Alexa's chair right there. Angel. And I'm like, you know, for me, that was like, okay, desean, obviously, what you're doing must be apply. Must be happening, right? And when it came to legendary, that's because again, you know, when it came to the producer speaking to them, we were speaking to the producers of Scout Productions for two years before we actually put on the very first episode. Because I. They came, we had a meeting with them, and I remember they brought all the leaders from Los Angeles and brought them inside of a room together, and we were having a conversation, and everybody was like, yes, yes, yes. And I was there like.
And they was like, they keep on bringing you up, so what you got to do, because you teaching, you traveling, you doing this, you putting on the vogue, getting on Balls out here. That's happening right now. What's going on? I'm like, you know, if we're going to apply this, we have to do it correct. And of course, there was a lot of things that happened with Legendary, I'm sure.
[00:59:50] Speaker B: And listen, listen, I know. Listen, here's the situation. And, you know, sometimes we are able to, you know, what I do is when I was on Pose, I basically.
I basically acknowledged the voices from people who were voicing the things that maybe we couldn't at the time voice that stuff that was going on that people could see that was happening, you know. And I think with Pose, with shows like Legendary, one thing that folks have to realize across the board, working on the project or watching the project, is that it's a collaboration. As an actor, I brought candy, but I had no control over a whole bunch of other stuff. There was so many things going on, and I was so ready for this opportunity. But there were many people who weren't, and there were other so much drama and things that were going on. And so what I like to say is that, like, I. I believe that there are many ways that Pose and Legendary, you know, I think, you know, could have been better, but when we're talking about the society and the time that we're in, it was better than anything that we've ever had.
[01:01:05] Speaker D: We've ever had.
[01:01:06] Speaker B: Legendary was its own moment, you know, the way that the. Our. Our community now, for me, I preferred, like, the first season vibes in the sense of, like, when the audience was there. But then I know that covet happened and, like, changed the way that you. You all had to film it. But then also, you know, I could see moments of. I could see moments of struggle in the production of whiteness, trying to infiltrate more into the space and taking up space in, you know, performance spaces and things like that, as well as, like. Like very tricky conversation of bringing assist straight women into the space, into the judge space, where, like we said, it's. It's almost like, reflective of what happened with the Mary J. Blige pageant, in a sense that it's like, we want y'all here, but also there's got to be a respect of, like, being in this space. And also we as a community have got to learn to stop putting more weight on them than we do on our own stuff. Stars, we continue to do that throughout Pride. You know, I love all of these major stars and celebrities, but we have stars and celebrities of our own making. From Vincent, yourself, you know, Alex newall, Mila, jam myself 2:00am Ricky. There's. I mean, there's so many rappers and seven deep and like, there's so many queer artists that we don't even know about ourselves. And. But we're still focusing on the other folks. Folks. So, like, one thing that I know I'm going to be doing for Pride coming in here in Atlanta is basically focusing on queer local talent and putting on my own event.
Because I think if we don't celebrate our stars, we cannot expect for people outside our community to celebrate them.
[01:02:52] Speaker D: I agree with you, Angelica. And this is the, this is. I say this is exactly why I do what I do today, right? Because, like, I, I've sat in spaces and rooms and I know I'll have that moment, opportunity to express these experiences. But sit inside these rooms with executives and they're like, we want to do things. Things. That's where I'm like, no, it can't happen that way. And when you do it that way, this is what's going to happen. And if you don't allow us to be and exist and do what we do, because we are the, you know, we're doing what we're doing and you're paying attention for a reason. So let us. Let us do. Let us exist. Let us have these things. That's why I continuously do what I have to do. Still to this day, Angelica, when it comes to industry stuff that doesn't go right, it's still stuff that I still say no till to this day. I know sometimes I get opportunities to be the only vulgar there, you know, who presented himself on the Voice on the stage. But there was other vulgars as well there too. But what I mean is, like, what it did was I wasn't brought in because my agency brought me in. I wasn't brought in because, you know, I'm part of this big situation. I was brought in because we have a relationship with people and they know what the importance of, of having the right and the correct there. And I'm so happy that I'm absolutely people.
[01:04:02] Speaker B: You're such a pleasure. You're such a. You know, one thing I love about you, desean, like, you know, I. Whether we were on the set of Pose or whether we were in a ballroom situation, you have always just had such a warm and welcoming and supportive energy. I'mma tell you right now, though, and I don't give a damn, but I'm going to tell you right now, like, I've seen it and I felt it where, whether it was I was on the set of polls and people didn't see it for me initially or whether it's, I come back and I go to ballroom spaces and folks are mugging me the whole time, or, you know.
[01:04:38] Speaker D: There'S.
[01:04:40] Speaker B: All kind of just shenanigans going on or like, say, for instance, even at that Mary J. Blige, you know, that, that, that at that ball, you know, I was coming out on behalf of Gilead to make remarks. And one of the things that we kind of talked about was me coming out to my new SO song Purr, which I basically created for the ballroom, you know, scene. And, you know, so I give this stuff, you know, and I could tell, like, even as I'm saying that, that folks weren't really trying to give me that space. And I, I, but I kind of paid it. I was just like, okay, I kind of notice a little reluctance, but okay, but thank you for doing it. So then I go out and when I tell you I didn't hear, I couldn't hear the song. I just started talking and I was just like, oh yeah, if you can hear it, that song that's playing, that's my new song, purr and blah, blah. And I just kept going like nothing was nothing.
[01:05:29] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:05:29] Speaker B: And then, you know, saucy Santana came out a little bit later and the walls were shaking, you understand, with the music. And so there have just been big and small ways in which I've experienced shade from, you know, the community. And you know, for me, I've just been consistent. And that's what I love about you, is that regardless of how people see it, for me or don't, I stay consistent with the positive energy that I bring into this space.
[01:05:55] Speaker D: Because you're actually your, your, your knowledge, your information, your experiences, your, your running into path with others is given opportunities to either get the knowledge they need or you're going to guide them in the right place that they can get it. Oh, I think, you know, yes, we live in a place because it's so popular. People just want to be the next one. And I'm, I do this because I love it and I'm being acknowledged for it. Thank you. But like, I do it because I love it and that's why I still do it to this day. But I know there's people, that's why they, I'm the, the, I can't say outcomes. Yeah. Like, you know, they want to see the, the, the pictures, the, the photos, the BMX of celebrities and other stuff. You know, again, I, I, I get it, I understand it. But you know, when, when you love something so much, so dearly and you, you put in the work into it to make sure that you'll get the perfect results, not only for yourself, but for others. This is why, you know, I myself with a few others will consistently continuously do what we do. Because this is not. It's not a job for me. I just love doing it. You know, I enjoy.
[01:06:53] Speaker B: I think it's like, it's like the influencers as well. It's like what you listen y'all, those. If you hear me, the sound of my voice, I'm telling you right now, hang it up flat screen. If you are trying to be an influencer.
[01:07:14] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[01:07:15] Speaker B: But don't. But don't have any authority on anything. Meaning what are you influencing, sweetie? So here, I mean, and people want to be influencers for the engagement, for the followers, for the brand deals, for certain things. But what is your passion?
[01:07:31] Speaker A: What is your authority?
[01:07:33] Speaker B: What is your expertise? That is what is going to basically anchor you in being influential. Yeah, but you can't be influential if you do not have authority in anything you're talking about. I don't even care if it's. If it could be marketing, right? Marketing, baby. There's so many things to know about marketing as well as like the bandwagon propaganda.
There are different ways that they. The different things that they do. But the more things that you know, like as an expertise, the more you can influence the marketing industry or makeup. If you are a makeup, like, how are you influencing being. But you don't know how to wear makeup or put it on or put it on. Nobody, oh.
[01:08:18] Speaker D: Didn't tell someone how to put it on. You know, it's. It's again, you're correct about the. The space of, of authority, of even speaking or the knowledge you are where.
[01:08:28] Speaker B: You'Re at because you are literally a ballroom authority. Authority.
[01:08:33] Speaker D: Authority. I not only do this dancing, I say it on the microphone speaking as well too. And I'm like, you are, you are natural, baby. You saying about authority. Let me tell again, I can say one of the best experiences I had on polls is had the opportunity to see you work.
And I mean that because you're beautiful, intelligent, talented, charming, human. But baby, oh my gosh, to see how to hear the. How you prepared yourself and you would go so all natural and how everyone, when you stepped on that, that, that floor. Angelica. To even deliver your lines and how authentic and natural and how real it felt like, girl, I. Even when it came to the funeral part, I was Sitting like, girl, I'm getting emotional. And a few. This is a damn TV show. What the hell is happening? We filming this. But it felt so real because you embodied, you know, a character. And by the way, there are characters in this community who are like that. This is why they, they appreciated you as a character because, you know, you spoke in such a space that we don't get to speak all the time.
[01:09:33] Speaker B: Baby, when I tell you I. That character, I told one of my friends, Kenya Summermore, or excuse me, not. Not that Kenya. Kenya Black.
[01:09:41] Speaker D: Kenya Black. I love you, Kenya.
[01:09:43] Speaker B: You know, Kenya Black. So I grew up with Kenya Black. I grew up. She was my drag sister. She was around when I first would come around with a fall half fall wig, wearing no makeup and thought I was a tee. And she would call. She would like, look at that little cross dresser. She would. She would call me a little cross dresser. And so that's why I would call Blanca a cross dresser in the show. Like, I literally pulled and, and, and even though I didn't always feel as sexy in what they put me in, you know, for candy, I pull from Kenya. Because one thing about Kenya is like Kenya just oozed sex. Like it was just something she didn't even have to. You know, she just the way she walked. So like I, I. In my mind I just kept telling myself I'm the sexiest on this thing. And so, and even if I didn't feel it because. And so even when I talked, I was like, you don't know I'm moving. Like, I just am so sexy, you know, whatever the case is.
[01:10:39] Speaker D: So you had to be there to see everybody. It felt so good. I loved you. I'm sorry.
[01:10:45] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:10:46] Speaker D: Amazed. I had a great time. But you. It just to. To have this. I had to. I had the opposite.
[01:10:52] Speaker B: I was really serious about. I was really serious about it.
[01:10:55] Speaker D: I love everyone and everybody know I. I give. I. I give the. The. The greatest experience because I love to get the experience as well too. But baby, to see that in person for you to deliver it was even to me at some points. I was like, well, damn, Dashaun. So in order for me to being shadow now next to this house of Wintour, you know, it's not like I'm always in. In the. In the background with the girls. Right there you have an opportunity to speak. And this lady is showing you right here how she takes these lines. That was here, but completely like did her own thing.
[01:11:25] Speaker B: The way I was telling Leomi. Because let me tell you something. About Leomi. I kept telling Leomi. I was like, leomi, use a funny.
Leomie. You are naturally funny. I need you to bring that to these scenes. And she was, like, being very respectful. She was just like, look, look, I know that I'm not one of the main characters in this scene. About. I said, girl, I wasn't the main character in the scene. When they wrote Candy in, I didn't have no lines. I had to make them up, Right? It's about literally and. And what I told people in the funeral scene. Like, I remember there were just moments where there were people who were doing too much all the time. There was one girl who was just stepping in front of my camera at times. I was like, girl, this is my shot. This is my camera. Like, step back. Like, you know, And. And so there would be, like, times when Billy's preaching, say, for instance, or, you know, pray tells, in the thing, giving a speech. And people are trying to chime in, but they're doing too much and they're going over his lines and they're, you know, doing certain things. And I'm like, listen. Think about it this way. We are together creating a symphony, a score. And in these moments and creating a score, you have to realize how important silence is. Or the rest. The rest is just as important as a note.
And so when you know that, listen. Listen for the music. Listen for the cadence of how things are going so that you know just the right moment to speak up, that it will get heard and not cut because you're. You're speaking over someone else's line.
[01:12:58] Speaker D: Can I tell you something?
After watching you, that's why the opportunity happened for season two. Because when I seen you on one of the episodes and you did something. And then I heard that, you know, again, you just. You take your lines and you. You just got this whole plethora of things of how you do to make it so natural. I realized I had to take a line, and I did the same thing on Pose. And they actually gave it to me. And I remember when I did it, I think I was battling.
Oh, God. I was. I'm about to say Ryan, but I was battling Jamal.
[01:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah, Jamal and Ricky.
[01:13:32] Speaker D: Oh, no. Jamal. And they had brought in another ballroom person to battle us. Us. And, you know, pray tell, Will scoring us and everything like that. And it. I. Again, I felt what you were saying, what you'd done before. And I was watching what you're doing. I was like, maybe I should see if I can do something. Because I felt good. He's like, score shadow. And I was going to. And I was like, win tour. And he was like, oh, shadow, Wintour. I know your house bit. But what I mean about that is when we shot that again, he looked at me for saying it.
[01:13:58] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[01:13:58] Speaker D: And that means, like, I again that. That finding that melting line now when we recorded it again, because, you know, we had to do it again and again. Now we're doing it from the camera, from the back again.
[01:14:08] Speaker B: Tell you, what I learned was. What I learned was, you know, the writers, they have what they wrote. And we would go in to do the blocking, you know, the blocking rehearsal. And then we would. So in the beginning, what I would do is I would say the lines as they wrote it the first time. The second time, I'd go in with my own spin, and then they'd usually be like that.
[01:14:29] Speaker D: That.
[01:14:29] Speaker B: Do that one. And so then I started. I started just trusting myself more and more and more. And I started making edits to the script in my trailer. I was like, okay. And I'm one of the only people I would tell you that would actually shorten my lines.
And I was shorten them just because the way I needed to roll off my tongue, I need this to be less wordy. I need this to sound differently. And so I. I would literally change it and make it shorter. And. And. And by doing so, what I allowed for them to do was catch my action more than my words. So remember when lathe. There was a point where the lathe. The boy, they were walking, the trans boys were walking the category. And Candy's just being real thirsty, and she's sitting on her straw. She's being real thirsty, baby. When I tell you. They had said action.
Because my first. The first line was.
There was a line that would. That starts it off. But they were called. They. They call like, camera speed. You know, they're setting the camera up and they're about to call action.
[01:15:30] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:15:31] Speaker B: Before they call action, here I am with my straw, and I'm doing my. And I'm doing. They didn't even call action yet. And I know that later they told me they was like, get Angelica. She's on. She's going right now. Like, they were saying, like, start recording her right now because she's already doing. She's already in, you know, so it really is not about. They say there are no small parts, only small actors.
[01:15:55] Speaker D: All small actors. Oh, baby, baby.
[01:15:59] Speaker B: Because you couldn't make me small on screen if you tried to.
No shot day, as you would say, did you coin that.
[01:16:09] Speaker D: Yes, I did.
[01:16:11] Speaker B: I was about to say. Because. Wait a minute. I. I wait because I heard. I ain't heard it nowhere until I heard you say no shade. And now, like. And I want to make sure. That's why I'm saying it here right now. I want to make sure y'all know right here, right now, if somebody is saying instead of no shade, they saying no sad day.
That comes from none other than Daeshun Wesley. I just want to give props and credit.
[01:16:34] Speaker D: It is no shade to Sade. It's giving. Y'all not throw no shade to Sade. Okay, Right, like, no Sade, no sad day.
[01:16:42] Speaker B: No. Yes, absolutely. No, listen. You did that. You ate that.
[01:16:45] Speaker D: But coming from a space again, like. Like you said, being a creative, and it comes through naturally, like. Or, you know, you just have a feeling, or you just. It moves within you, even to a space of creating little words or just having an opportunity to host the damn show. Like.
[01:17:01] Speaker B: Well, and now I. Now I hear that you taking that voice into. Are you doing music, too?
[01:17:06] Speaker D: You know, I was. Yeah.
[01:17:08] Speaker B: You know, wait, listen, because this is what I'm trying to say. This is what I'm trying to say, you know? You know, I be producing and making music and doing the things you do. You know, I do. And I have a song. I have a song that I think that you would be insane on doing, like, some MC stuff on. It's called Custom Made.
You know, the.
[01:17:27] Speaker D: The.
[01:17:27] Speaker B: The hook goes Gucci.
[01:17:29] Speaker D: Let me feel that feet. Let it bring that.
[01:17:31] Speaker B: Listen, right after we get off this thing, I'mma send you the rough cut of it. And one of the rappers on it is Oliver Twist and also 2am Ricky. But I want it to be one of these songs, but I want you to, like, commentate throughout it. So I want you to hear it and see. See what you're feeling or whatever. But I know you're going to feel it right away.
But I do want this song to be like. I don't know if you remember that song. I think it was Nas and Jay Z. I mean, I think that there was, like, this song that just kept going, and it had all these rappers that kept coming on to this, to the song.
Yes. It's just to get by. I think it was. I think it was just to get.
[01:18:09] Speaker D: By the rapper after rapper after rapper. Yeah.
[01:18:11] Speaker B: And they just kept coming on with a new verse or whatever, you know, I want this thing to almost be like, you know, when somebody re. What do they do? They read not remiss. Remix it but when they do like a stitch or something with your, like a sing with me or something. But, but even more than that of a social media thing, of just something that, because I'm the producer of the track. Yeah, keep it going. Who's the next rapper, you know, queer rapper that's gonna do a verse on it or whatever. But when you hear this is Gucci, Prada, ain't got nothing on my body. Nothing on my body. Versace, Balenciaga and got nothing on my body. I'm custom made. It's like is, is, is the hook. But it's very, it gives. It's, it's all. It gives. It gives. Yeah.
[01:18:53] Speaker D: Oh, I want those labels. Give me yours.
[01:18:56] Speaker B: Yes. Because that's why I say I'm sending you this track right after we have this conversation and listen to it. Let me know you're. As soon as you do listen to, you have to do, listen to it right away. But when you do listen to it, hit me up and let me know your first response.
[01:19:08] Speaker D: We get to talk about this because I've been like, like now I'm experiencing this space, by the way, because of me being a commentator, me grabbing a microphone, I have this opportunity to space. One of our things that we do is kind of hype people up and chant and give them the feeling, everybody know, whether the person's competing or in the room, to feel good enough to even watch, participate and do everything. So I always wanted to, but I honestly feel like, you know, as the scene grows more. And if you look at it, Angelica, you know, we have artists out there who are sitting here doing some commentating things. We have artists who are getting acknowledged for doing the same things that we were doing. And I don't think that, you know, we know what we need to do.
[01:19:46] Speaker B: As we just need to own our.
[01:19:49] Speaker D: Space, own our space, own our sound.
[01:19:52] Speaker B: And we also have to stop giving up so easily to outsiders, you know, especially if they're not willing to have a respectful relationship with community.
[01:20:00] Speaker D: Yeah, Angelica. Even in this space that I'm sitting in with music, you know, again, everybody, I, I, I'm sitting in this space at the same time making music, giving people the experience of, of where I want to go as I'm making this music, because I can't have you saying, oh, that crash sounds good. Oh, you didn't. I'm like, well, you never been to a function, so you can't tell me where that crash need to go.
[01:20:19] Speaker B: Right?
[01:20:19] Speaker D: Tell you. And let's create our original crash. So we ain't got to pay no girl to in order to up for that next situation. So this could be ours and it belongs to us.
[01:20:26] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[01:20:27] Speaker D: So I'm. I'm learning in this space as well.
[01:20:29] Speaker B: You know, Listen, we can, we can learn together because. Listen, listen, listen. I'm gonna tell you, listen, I Purdue, I mean, I produce like this. I'm talking about, I produce songs. So I now got it down to a place where I've created some environments where I can take my studio virtual so I can bring people into a virtual session. They can see me just like this recording onto a track. They can hear it as if they're in the studio in their ears. So they're hearing exactly how I'm hearing, you know, in real time. So we can do some things even if we're not on the same code post.
[01:20:59] Speaker D: Let me. Okay.
[01:21:00] Speaker B: All right.
[01:21:00] Speaker D: All right, let's. So I'm always in the studio. I'm here for. I'm. I actually taught myself a lot of things before I decided to jump into this music stuff. So I wanted to learn the behind the scenes stuff. So I realized what I'm getting myself in super size before jumping in here. And I realized even as a. A public figure here in this space today, I now notice I'm walking in a new space, but people know who I am and they're like, oh, you that guy. Come here. So I run into, you know, learning how to navigate this game even in this. And baby, this, this music stuff is quite unique, honey. And you know this, you know this.
[01:21:37] Speaker B: I cannot believe the Sharks and the different things that. And all the things that go down and how people take, get taken advantage of and just steamrolled and all kind of things. But I learned, and you learn quickly.
[01:21:48] Speaker D: And I, I can honestly say I have some amazing people who are even great artists that, who give me knowledge. Whenever I can actually call one person who I am going to acknowledge, shout out to Maya. You know, whenever I admire the singer, whenever I give her a little holla. She's the first one who taught me about, you know, split sheets. Yeah.
[01:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
Oh, my God. That album, Moon, forget what it. But that. Oh, that was my. Oh my God.
[01:22:15] Speaker D: Her latest project she came out with.
[01:22:16] Speaker B: I haven't, I haven't dived into it yet.
[01:22:18] Speaker D: Moving now.
[01:22:19] Speaker B: Like, she looks amazing. That's that vegan diet.
[01:22:22] Speaker D: Vegan diet? Yeah, that's that vegan life she got going on. So she taught me about like how to come up with these, like these contracts and she taught me about split sheets and notice about points and how people play with it. And when it comes to a producer than the engineer or the person which are publishing and all this other jazz. And I'm so glad I learned all that. So when I do jump into this, I know how to play this game and what to ask ask for. I know my masters, I know how to take control of my masters, get my full percentage of it or at least get majority of it.
[01:22:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. At least, at least hold on to your publishing for your split. Because a lot of times when people are doing these splits, they don't realize that they'll keep your publishing if you don't speak up and say, I actually have my own publishing, so I'll take my publishing split too.
[01:23:08] Speaker D: Oh, Angelica. I know like one of my babies right now who's going through something like this with the artist right now and the artist is just paying them out. And I'm like, well, where did you record and where did you do this? And I realized what they are letting go because what they don't know, right? And it, it sucks because we don't have this knowledge as we where we are step into this space. And by the way, because of sometimes.
[01:23:27] Speaker B: You let go, but sometimes you let go. And this is, this is why I'mma tell you. I'm going give you, I'm going give you this little note to, to let go because as a person who gets paid a lot of money to do speaking engagements, you a corporation.
We are going to, we're going to, it's going to be a lovely fee.
But the situation is though, so many black trans led organizations or queer organizations, they don't have the budgets to pay me to come in. And so many times I either do something on a sliding scale or if I'm booked to be in a city at some big company here, if I have time in another day, I'll go ahead and visit to another place that doesn't have the budget. And I say that, to say that, that just like what I think Issa Ray spoke about this a little bit when she talked about how so many creators and people are looking up here and saying, oh, I want to work with this person and I want to work with that person and what have you. And usually those are the person who are going to take advantage of you, goop you and do all these different things.
Not necessarily looking to their left and looking to their right of the people who are hustling just as hard. Not people who are looking for somebody else to create something for them, but someone who's saying I am hustling. I'm bringing what I'm bringing. You bringing what you bringing. Maybe we could do this then. My split with this person looks like, you know, just a regular split versus, you know, me working with, let's say, an artist that I don't believe in, you know, that. Whatever. Then I'm just gonna charge you, you know, a. Whatever fee to do well, not even. Not even that. Like, I might not if I know you not like a huge artist or whatever. I'm just gonna charge you regular stuff, you know, but, like, working with other folks, you gotta be on top of. Of, you know, that business in certain ways. Because even though there might not be money up front, they have the star power or they have certain things that can make it turn into something on the back end. So if it ain't up front, then check, you know, then look. Look out for me on the back end. But. But I also work with other artists where I know they're not there yet. As far as, like, oh, oh, oh, there we go. No, that was me.
[01:25:32] Speaker D: What would that mean?
[01:25:32] Speaker B: Okay, I think that was my. Something had.
Oh, oh, yes. My camera had paused for a second. That means it's about the time to wrap up. They said you've been going for about an hour or something. Girl, I love it.
[01:25:44] Speaker D: I love it, baby.
[01:25:45] Speaker B: But. But yes, sometimes, you know, it's about building something together. So for me, as someone who runs Ableton, who runs and produces and does things, and I can create. I work with my vocal coach, who creates melodies, like, insanely and sings kind of similar tone to me. So he's able to model a lot of. Of stuff for me. We write together. He brings a lot to the table. So for us, it's a 5050 thing. The only thing I ever really get extra is producer points because I'm producing the track.
[01:26:20] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:26:21] Speaker B: But outside of that, it's just we split things. I'm not charging for studio time. I'm not. None of this kind of stuff because we are doing it together. But. But. So when you are the value, when you are the situation, what I want to just even encourage you, you know, as your career, as you go on, you're creating classes, you're doing all the things you are the value, like, you've seen and, like, you're showing, and you get to decide how to manifest that value. Sometimes that value is just you showing up, and the people in the space are so excited about it.
[01:26:58] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:26:59] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Deshawn Wesley is here and they're going to be inspired. And they're going to see the value in just you showing up. And other people might not see the value, so you got to show it to them in dollars and cents.
[01:27:15] Speaker D: That's what I mean. And I'm. I'm with you, Angelica. But you know, as when you write.
[01:27:20] Speaker B: You right, I'm with you and you're right.
[01:27:24] Speaker D: That is my motto today. I am with you when you're right. And I'm not with you, but I'm with you when you're right. And what. And, and right now I've been experiencing this even more now than I was before because as you've been seeing, you know, even from a spot. I know we met each other before pose, but like even from a point of the spot you've seen where moments where. And I've seen many moments where you were able to speak and be. And then I'm just like, you know, work, Angelica. We just did Pride last year. You know, I performed. You know, they had the girls Vogue, my kids vote for me when you for your song. But what I mean about this is I realized the first part about it is showing up. It's showing up. And it depends on how you show up in this room as well too. Because some people could just be there, but that just being there doesn't mean just about anything. And that's why I said I respect this space that the info you just said about authority and your speaking and presence, that deals with authority as well too. Even with your mannerism, systems, authority. It works as well too, because some people could be nasty and shady, some people could be nice and still be shady. But what I mean is like, you're right about that. I've noticed how I need to show up because I noticed what my community isn't doing in some spaces. So I have to show up. I'm learning about stuff that I was never privy to. But I realized if I take. If I don't or approach this in such a learning and also knowledgeable space, I'm just trying to do this to get the next. Next buck. And that's not, that's not what. What that is about.
[01:28:53] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[01:28:54] Speaker D: Yeah. It's bigger because honestly I will. And I realize the buck comes with it. And I'm like, oh, so you know, the more you do and. Or like the, the. And then when you know how you exist today, you know, even know how to approach it because you're correct when you go to a space and then someone like, I can't come to you to do that. But if I'm out there, I may just slide on by, you know, I may give you a little shadow or you know, stay there for do this little situation. But I, I realized this, the space that we're growing in right now, and we have not been, our community have not been educated into this as much. This is why you have very few people who are existing to speak and make sure it goes in the right way. So I thank you so much, Angela, because again, I, I, I agree there's a lot of things that we can still do that, you know, because overall. And then my last kind of final thing when it comes to balm that I hope that we have, that I think that we are working towards because a lot of our action, things are changing, is that we have a headquarters so we can make a decision and get our grants, financials, everything that was headquartered so everybody can get their equal share and everybody can go within the guidelines of rules that we all put in. Because we're still going off of verbal rules rather than what we put down and what needs to be said. Because a hundred years from now, when all of you girls are not here, how are they going to continue the legacy, continue their conversation, keep this going? You know, I know what I did. I know what the work I put in to make sure that we can continuously go, how can we all do this? Why can't we come together to make this even bigger than what it is?
[01:30:16] Speaker B: Well, baby, the language of, the language of America and capitalism is corporations. And at the end of the day, you know, you are, your commute, your family, it's an organization. And there are many white people actually who have taken that very literally and have actually integrated that into the way that they move wealth by create, putting their children into their companies in certain ways. And so I think that as ballroom that is the next level is taking your, your famil and making, incorporate, making corporations and actually even giving the. Oh, did I freeze again? We can. Okay, there we go.
Turning these families and these houses into corporations and actually giving people responsibilities to the family, to the situation, whether that is like an entourage. Somebody was the driver, somebody was getting the weed, somebody was, you know, choreography, whatever it is, is. But creating this element that I'm a part of this organization and I am contributing. And if I don't know yet what my contribution is, then let me get about the business of finding out.
[01:31:22] Speaker D: Well, can I tell you one thing? You know, I'm not sure if everybody knows. I know, you know, but everybody out there know I have my Own house. The house.
And one thing that a few things that I did and I'm gonna name just quick3 that I want to make sure I do as I started this house number one. When it came to ballroom we usually go within these, these, these Neo, the Eurocentric kind of names of having like, you know, Prada, Gucci, which is all even not American specific names. But like we idolize this, these, these names rather than actually going to a space and idolizing or researching and loving what we experience or we kind of achieve definitely in our space. So that's why I chose Bastia because again it's a man from New York City, by the way. But then again have this opportunity to have these experiences in a space where we thought it couldn't exist.
[01:32:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:32:12] Speaker D: So he's able to speak in. In a big space to name. And I didn't want to do that with something I was not familiar with that they will look at me as just another, you know, another child that's just the folks in that community. But what I wanted to do that was one thing second was have a connection with them too. So my house right now we are in conversation with John Michael Basquiat Estate just to make sure we go, you know, move it in the right space because you know, today, you know, use the name. They'll take it from me.
[01:32:40] Speaker B: Of course.
[01:32:40] Speaker D: You know.
[01:32:40] Speaker B: Of course.
[01:32:41] Speaker D: So we are in contact with the sisters, in contact with their, their whole team to make sure we're doing things right. We're going to have so many opportunities that we have a. Some things we're going to collaborate with trying to get the right licenses and things so stuff that we can use.
[01:32:54] Speaker B: Oh, that would be great. Yeah.
[01:32:55] Speaker D: We're work. We're talking and working that out right now. I have no problem.
And the last thing I would say is about what you said earlier. This is correct. I myself just as well as my team, my board and everybody that's with me to created this house. Love me some Misha Lay this while we did this. But my house is a non for profit because I one thing that I did not want to do was sit here and not do what we have to do in order to get the things that we needed. Because it experienced what I experienced. I was younger in this space I didn't get. So I have to see what I can do and order to provide those that not I'm overall father. But I realized the space that we have to exist today. Incorporate yourself, get, get something going on. I got great people who are helping with me and I'm going say one thing that we're doing in conjunction.
[01:33:38] Speaker B: No, listen, give it.
[01:33:40] Speaker D: But again, we, we turn into this non for profit and we have this, this partnership with LA Room and Board for youth and young adult in the LA area who don't have a place to stay if they need a room aboard, they're in college, day in school, we provide them with this space. Again, LA Room and Board, their nonprofit place that helps them get their resume together, make sure they get in school, they're in college, they have a space to stay and live. And what we did, we partnered with them so we can utilize members in our house who didn't have places to stay or needed something and they gave us a section, we applied them there, let everything go on and. And it worked out with a partnership with them. So I gotta go in and check on kids once, you know.
[01:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's incredible. Like, literally, Daeshawn, you are embodying the essence of no opportunity wasted. Not a single one. Not a single one. I. I can't wait to see what you do next. I can't wait to see you dancing on, you know, on the Voice. I know that you're. I know that. That you know, for me, what I see for your future is the manifestation of a restoration of our being able to be participants in popular culture, you know, and not just have to watch from the sidelines, but like really understand. We've always been influencing the culture. They've always been sneaking into the ballrooms and into the clubs and into the spaces, taking dance moves, taking all kind of things. Things. It's time for us to kind of lead in these spaces. And I see you as one of those leaders in the space, so.
[01:35:17] Speaker D: Thank you, baby.
[01:35:18] Speaker B: Keep going.
[01:35:20] Speaker D: That's all. I try to influence my community. I know I can influence others out there, influence my community to do better with what we got. Because we, this, Chad, is a billion dollar industry. Depends on what we do with it to make it what it is.
[01:35:33] Speaker A: Hello.
[01:35:34] Speaker B: Go get that money, y'all. No opportunity wasted. No shot day. No sad day. Thank you so much. They shot for joining us.
[01:35:41] Speaker D: Now love me some you whenever we get to talk because you know, we can keep.
[01:35:46] Speaker B: We can, you know, because listen, I didn't even mean for it to be this long. I might have to cut this up into two parts.
[01:35:52] Speaker D: It's all good, baby. You got some good stuff inside.
[01:35:54] Speaker B: We got. We got some great stuff here. And thank you for joining me.
[01:35:58] Speaker A: We will be right back. All right, before we wrap up Today's episode, I want to leave you with something to reflect on. A message that is just weighing on me. And luckily, the Lotus Sutra opening and closing chapters speaks directly to this, directly to what we're living in right now. In the world.
In a muddied Kappa. In an evil age, there will be many things to fear. Evil demons will take possession of others, and through them curse, revile, and heap shame on us. But we, reverently, trusting in the Buddha, will put on an armor of perseverance in order to preach this suture. We will bear these difficult things. We care nothing for our bodies or our lives, but are anxious only for the unsurpassed way.
Those words remind me of the storms that I have weathered. The betrayals, the setbacks, the pain that has felt unbearable at times.
And yet, I'm not giving up. I'll never stop fighting for human rights, for world peace, and for dignity for all people. Because standing firm in your beliefs and your values and your mission, that's what it means to live with purpose. And it ain't easy. In fact, the more you speak truth, the more resistance you're going to face. But Nichiren Daishonin said it best.
Worthy persons deserve to be called so because they're not carried away by the eight winds. Prosperity, decline, disgrace, honor, praise, censure, suffering, and pleasure. They are neither elated by prosperity nor grieved by decline. The heavenly gods will surely protect one who is unbending before the eight winds. End quote. That's from the writings of Nature and Daishonin, Volume 195.
So the storms are going to come, y'all. Just last night, Atlanta and so many parts of the country faced literal storms. A reminder that life is unpredictable, chaotic, and sometimes downright destructive. But what matters most isn't the storm itself. It's how we stand through it. How we refuse to be swayed by the winds of fear, oppression, or injustice.
We got to remain rooted in the truth that every single person deserves the right to live freely, unimpeded by government oppression or religious extremism. And that means we can't just stand for ourselves.
We got to stand up for each other. Because our lives are connected. The freedoms that we take for granted today can be taken from us tomorrow. The government is already using fascist tactics to disappear people without due process.
People whose only crime is speaking out against injustice.
These are not normal times, and we can't afford to act like they are.
So if you feel overwhelmed, if you feel like you don't know where to start, start with this.
Stand for something.
Stand for somebody.
If nothing else, make sure that when history looks back on this moment, it can say that you chose to resist. That you chose to be a voice, a protector, a beacon for truth.
Ain't nobody coming to save us.
But together, we can save ourselves and each other.
Until next time, take care of yourselves. Take care of your people.
And take action wherever you can. No opportunity wasted.
[01:40:06] Speaker B: You holding up your numb, you holding gay?
